New Record Holder?

[BlvdBrzr]

Originally Posted by CHicks26

Track is what matters not dyno. The dyno is simply a tool. Why would someone want a 600rwhp car from what the dyno shows that only runs low 12's

Incorrect. You are being silly about it, because a 600rwhp shouldn't run 12's...... That is not the dyno's fault, nor is it the fact that the car made 600rwhp - it is because the car is not set-up properly, OR it is not driven properly. If what you are saying is "IT" - well, it's not a proper way to look at it....if you reverse it - are you saying since the car runs 12's, it doesnt make 600hp? lol... Just because that car runs 12's@130....doesn't mean that the person cannot be proud of having 600rwhp.

If you run into said 600rwhp/12 second car on the highway, and your 345rwhp, 11 second Mach 1.....gets its a$$ drug down the road - do you roll down the window and yell "that is NOT a 600rwhp car, it only runs 12's!!!" ?? lol....

You use a dyno, for dyno purposes....and the track, for track purposes. No reason to compare the two. If someone makes XXX rwhp, and wants to brag.....let 'em do their thing. If they run X.XX@XXX - let 'em brag. The people who typically run the best times, are the people who typically make the most power (realized on a dyno) and are the best at setting the car up and driving the car. I gained 20 rwhp, and freshened my tires....and went from 12.0's@115 to 11.60's@118. Work up a calculation for me, lmk what you find out.

Originally Posted by JeromeMach1

Analyzing dyno numbers and track times are good. The more data one has to measure the performance of the car the better. However, all variables must be known. The dyno variables are the standard correction used and calibration of the unit. The track variables are 60ft, shift points, density altatude, quality of driver, weights, etc...I am sure there are others I left out.

My car is a perfect example. My previous motor set up made 405rwhp and would run 11.80's at 117mph. My new set up that I have been running this year made 410rwhp but would run 11.40's at 122mph. I have made about 300 passes at the track I race at so I am familiar with all of the track and verhicle variables. The same dyno was used but it was moved. This is an example of where either the dyno readings from my previous set up were high, or the new dyno numbers are low.

In general, when knowing the track and verhicle variables, using 1/4 mph to gague the HP of the car is sound.

Jerome

Very good post. Since I (and you have too) have been doing this for so long, we must agree that there is a VERY solid chance your #'s are not accurately compared. 99 times out of 100....probably 499 times out of 500 - we know your occurrence is not typical, at all.

The part in bold, I slightly agree....but depends on what % you are referring to. I can, from experience, usually guess "round about"....and be very close. However, there are simply way too many variables....and what is sound? "Sound" could be the difference of the amount of power LT's can give you, on a typical Mach 1.

[Big Ron]

I say just line 'em up and race. First one to the finish line wins.


Unless it's NASCAR!



Big Ron

[CHicks26]

[QUOTE=BlvdBrzr;1560671]Incorrect. You are being silly about it, because a 600rwhp shouldn't run 12's...... That is not the dyno's fault, nor is it the fact that the car made 600rwhp - it is because the car is not set-up properly, OR it is not driven properly. If what you are saying is "IT" - well, it's not a proper way to look at it....if you reverse it - are you saying since the car runs 12's, it doesnt make 600hp? lol... Just because that car runs 12's@130....doesn't mean that the person cannot be proud of having 600rwhp.

If you run into said 600rwhp/12 second car on the highway, and your 345rwhp, 11 second Mach 1.....gets its a$$ drug down the road - do you roll down the window and yell "that is NOT a 600rwhp car, it only runs 12's!!!" ?? lol....

You use a dyno, for dyno purposes....and the track, for track purposes. No reason to compare the two. If someone makes XXX rwhp, and wants to brag.....let 'em do their thing. If they run X.XX@XXX - let 'em brag. The people who typically run the best times, are the people who typically make the most power (realized on a dyno) and are the best at setting the car up and driving the car. I gained 20 rwhp, and freshened my tires....and went from 12.0's@115 to 11.60's@118. Work up a calculation for me, lmk what you find out.


Its obvious that you picked up power throughout the powerband and not just peak power. Had it only picked up peak power the outcome would have been different not to mention 2 different days. A dyno is a tool still. The track reveals how that car is working. There are tons of people that tune their cars on the street and not on the dyno.

I still would like to know all the details to this combo and not just say stock longblock since those words are used very loosely by some. Have the heads been off at all and if so for what?? i would like to know details

[CHicks26]

If in fact this car is making 390rwhp it should be out of the 12's or no slower than low 12's with a bad driver and a nice trap speed being no less than about 115 and im being very forgiving on that trap speed

[JeromeMach1]

The part in bold, I slightly agree....but depends on what % you are referring to. I can, from experience, usually guess "round about"....and be very close. However, there are simply way too many variables....and what is sound? "Sound" could be the difference of the amount of power LT's can give you, on a typical Mach 1.

I agree that there are many variables. The driver should know them all though. When I say "sounds" I am not referring to audible. I am using "sound" as being synonomous with "reasonable".

Jerome

[ShakeMe]

This has gone south in less than 12 seconds @ 109 and that equals

Can we all agree that there are dyno queens and there are track studs. See what I did there

[CHicks26]

Originally Posted by ShakeMe

This has gone south in less than 12 seconds @ 109 and that equals

Can we all agree that there are dyno queens and there are track studs. See what I did there

Yep i agree

[BlvdBrzr]

Originally Posted by JeromeMach1

I agree that there are many variables. The driver should know them all though. When I say "sounds" I am not referring to audible. I am using "sound" as being synonomous with "reasonable".

Jerome

I understand, and was asking "what reasonable amount"? You said it is sound, but what type of margins are we talking? As in, could/should two Mach 1's run the same ET and MPH, and one has LT's - with the other having stock mannies? What is the determining factor, a calculator, track experience, sixty foot times, etc? I assume an educated guess will work/could suffice.

Originally Posted by ShakeMe

This has gone south in less than 12 seconds @ 109 and that equals

Can we all agree that there are dyno queens and there are track studs. See what I did there

Originally Posted by CHicks26

Yep i agree

Agree X 2

[gonemad]

Originally Posted by BlvdBrzr

Count for?

I never understood this argument. I know what people mean, but, what do they really mean?

What does a 12.50@119 car tell anyone? What if it is an 11.39@118 car with traction? Who is calculating the HP from the trap speeds? Just wondering, because simply shifting earlier into 4th gear can gain 1-2 MPH, even more sometimes....with the HP staying the same.

Dynos are what counts, applying it is after the fact.

As time goes by, more people are living by this "track is what matters" mantra.......yet, I don't see many people "track tuning" the car. Weird.

ET is not an indicator of power, MPH will tell a more accurate story but not like a dyno of course. I think some guys wanna see the 390+rwhp in action. I could drive a 390rwhp car on stock 245 radials and trap close to 120 mph. If he takes it to the track and the thing traps anything less than 118mph I'd call BS on the power #s. Not saying that the dyno didnt produce those #s but let my put my cobra cammed car on that one and see what it puts down.

BTW my ride has never seen a dyno. Its a good tool for most (most dont race) but nothing even comes close to tuning at the TRACK, period. Either way the OPs car sounds strong, but I too would like to see it in in action moving the car and not a monitor needle.

[ryanscobra]

I only have an 1/8th mile track to run at, I'm not all that willing to drive 3 hours to the nearest 1/4 mile track. I did 2 passes. The best was 1.67 60' ft, 7.77 et, 88.8 mph with 90*+ weather. It bogged a little when I dumped the clutch. I'm pretty sure I could get a 7.5 out of her one day, but I don't drag race it all that much.

[JeromeMach1]

The best was 1.67 60' ft, 7.77 et, 88.8 mph with 90*+ weather.

Mph is meaningless without knowing the following:

1. Density altatude
2. Wind (head, tail, or cross)
3. Race weight

Jerome

[ModularMach1]

Nice numbers. Seems higher then people with way more mods.

[BlvdBrzr]

Originally Posted by gonemad

ET is not an indicator of power, MPH will tell a more accurate story but not like a dyno of course. I think some guys wanna see the 390+rwhp in action. I could drive a 390rwhp car on stock 245 radials and trap close to 120 mph. If he takes it to the track and the thing traps anything less than 118mph I'd call BS on the power #s. Not saying that the dyno didnt produce those #s but let my put my cobra cammed car on that one and see what it puts down.

BTW my ride has never seen a dyno. Its a good tool for most (most dont race) but nothing even comes close to tuning at the TRACK, period. Either way the OPs car sounds strong, but I too would like to see it in in action moving the car and not a monitor needle.

In bold, I disagree. It takes more HP to gain 2-tenths of a second in the 1/4 mile than it does to gain 2 mph. If we were removing variables, then you are correct. IE: if there was no such thing as a sixty foot time - or the car performed exactly the same through the 1/8 mile, in every increment.

Taking MPH at a track and calculating power level is so much more involved and advanced than most think. If your car is a manual trans car, next time you (or anyone reading this) is at the track - short shift a few hundred RPM sooner into 4th and watch the MPH increase - but the ET stay the same.

I completely disagree with tuning at the track being superior to a dyno. A good example would be the shape of the power curve. You simply cannot maximize the effectiveness of your power curve by a few track outings and tuning. People who try, are typically people who have timing tables that could use some "touch-up" - yet they don't realize the TQ to be gained, and the more AVG power (important for 1/4 mile) there is to be had - from analyzing the shape of the curve on a dyno.

Lastly - not all combos are equal.

If you have two Mach 1's....everything the same except one car has a stock tired clutch, with 3.55's.....and the other has a Spec 3 clutch with 4.56 gears......do they trap the same speed?

[CHicks26]

So why hasnt my question been answered? What are the car's complete mod list? Is the car still on stock 10.0:1 compression? Any head work?

[CHicks26]

Originally Posted by ryanscobra

I only have an 1/8th mile track to run at, I'm not all that willing to drive 3 hours to the nearest 1/4 mile track. I did 2 passes. The best was 1.67 60' ft, 7.77 et, 88.8 mph with 90*+ weather. It bogged a little when I dumped the clutch. I'm pretty sure I could get a 7.5 out of her one day, but I don't drag race it all that much.

Thats funny. My car is a vert with a cammed Mach motor with considerably less power and it runs 8.0's in the 1/8 @ 88-90mph with 1.8 60's. Im making 348/324

[CHicks26]

Originally Posted by ryanscobra

I only have an 1/8th mile track to run at, I'm not all that willing to drive 3 hours to the nearest 1/4 mile track. I did 2 passes. The best was 1.67 60' ft, 7.77 et, 88.8 mph with 90*+ weather. It bogged a little when I dumped the clutch. I'm pretty sure I could get a 7.5 out of her one day, but I don't drag race it all that much.

Thats funny. My car is a vert with a cammed Mach motor with considerably less power and it runs 8.0's in the 1/8 @ 88-90mph with 1.8 60's. I havent broken 7's because it either bogs when I launch or it spins out. Im making 348/324

[OWmach1]

good numbers! I bet its the pacesetters! haha i like those long tubes for the price.. might need to get some.

[Bmeagher]

Originally Posted by ryanscobra

I only have an 1/8th mile track to run at, I'm not all that willing to drive 3 hours to the nearest 1/4 mile track. I did 2 passes. The best was 1.67 60' ft, 7.77 et, 88.8 mph with 90*+ weather. It bogged a little when I dumped the clutch. I'm pretty sure I could get a 7.5 out of her one day, but I don't drag race it all that much.

Hell.... when I was 323rwhp sae my best was 7.8@91 mph. But I never made it back to the track since making 380rwhp

[ryanscobra]

Originally Posted by Bmeagher

Hell.... when I was 323rwhp sae my best was 7.8@91 mph. But I never made it back to the track since making 380rwhp

I don't drag race much at all, I'm still a rookie. And what is your elevation and DA? Mine is 1719' and 2000-2200 DA, and it was 90*+ with full weight. I'm sure with those variables changed, the results would be different.

[NeverEnuff]

Originally Posted by ryanscobra

I don't drag race much at all, I'm still a rookie. And what is your elevation and DA? Mine is 1719' and 2000-2200 DA, and it was 90*+ with full weight. I'm sure with those variables changed, the results would be different.

Remember Ryan, there isn't one weight reduction mod to your car besides the tubular K member. You even had the spare tire in the trunk...

Haters gonna hate. 7.7 isn't a bad time at all for the weight, DA and "rookie" status. A lot of ppl leave out "tricks" to get their good times, there were no tricks with yours, just a full weight Mach, with an average driver, making great power on a stock longblock, knocking down 11.99s in the 1/4...

[CHicks26]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff

Remember Ryan, there isn't one weight reduction mod to your car besides the tubular K member. You even had the spare tire in the trunk...

Haters gonna hate. 7.7 isn't a bad time at all for the weight, DA and "rookie" status. A lot of ppl leave out "tricks" to get their good times, there were no tricks with yours, just a full weight Mach, with an average driver, making great power on a stock longblock, knocking down 11.99s in the 1/4...

Well my car is a convertible with full weight. I had drag wheels on the car with drag radials on the rear and ran a 7.88 @ 89mph with average shifting that night. 60ft was 1.73.