Serious issues with Predator tune and running LEAN! - 2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club

Ricksterman · 10-16-2004, 06:15 PM

Ok, I had my Magnaflow cat-back put in today, and was going to do some dynotuning afterward. Before I get into the problem, I'll give some background.

I have a KN Aircharger, PHP intake spacer and underdrive pulleys, and with Diablo tune (Predator), and timing advanced 10% my numbers were:

286HP 310TQ, A/F 13.0 flat, and max timing about 19-17 from 4-6K (not great but I can live with it).

After the cat-back my A/F was 14-15! and of course we couldn't do a full pull.

No matter what I did to the fuel at 2-4 or 4-7K, the A/F would not go below 14, and that was at the 0 setting, richening it up only made it worse???? (and yes I tried leaning it out incase something was backward)

Finally I put the factory tune back in, and viola A/F 13.0 flat and short term fuel is at less then 1% (both banks) WOT 6400 RPM.

I gained 1 HP from putting in 10% advance at this point, and the advance was 20-17 WOT 4-6 (wow even better than the Diablo tune).

I emailed their tech support which have been good so far, but this is really a warning to everyone here who may mod without checking results, if I had just bolted on the cat-back witht the Diablo tune, I very well could be posting another thread "BLOWN MOTOR".

I have gotten excellent advice and suggestions from people here, if anyone can think of why the predator was not adjusting squat let me know (v50a btw).

Oh yeah with the factory tune and the mods the final pull (nice and hot after 10+pulls in an hour and half): 292HP 315TQ.

Shaunheb · 10-16-2004, 06:28 PM

I had the same thing happen to me. We did one pull with the factory tune and the car made 305rwhp, the next 5 pulls they did with the predator we never managed to get over 287rwhp no matter what was adjusted. almost nothing changed. So the guy doing the tune finally called the predator people for some help. What ended up happening is we found out that we had the wrong program in the pred. and that we needed the update. we hooked the thing up and downloaded the new program and walla the car started to respond. Not sure if this will help but just my experince.Also i was told when I purchased it that the pred was the updated version , and that turnd out to be a lie.

Ricksterman · 10-16-2004, 06:49 PM

Good point, but without the cat-back the Diablo tune added 5 HP (mostly from leaing out the A/F from 12.5 to 13.0), which makes me wonder if that is the problem here, did you see the software version on yours when it was the wrong program? Mine says v50a, so I assume it's correct...

TicketRed03 · 10-16-2004, 09:15 PM

Is the v50a the most up-to-date version that is out there?

Ricksterman · 10-16-2004, 10:23 PM

No the r50b is, and I dl it into the predator a while ago, unless Diablo has other suggestions I will try to dynotune with the updated calibration, and see if anything improves. I'm not unhappy with where the car is now (stock tune essentially), but I paid over 300 for the Predator and I thought I was getting more than a datalogger....

pthornton · 10-17-2004, 01:11 AM

How long did you drive the car between the install of the exhaust parts and the dyno time? When you make a change to the car, the air fuel ratio can swing wildly from one extreme to the other before it "learns" the new setup. Clearing the memory of the computer when making changes can lessen this, but it still can swing. I would make sure you have several hours of driving at a minimum before making adjustments. Reloading the stock tune probably reset the memory.

Randy

ShakeMe · 10-17-2004, 01:28 AM

This graph is from my Mach using a dry nitrous setup and 100/60 pills. I maxed out the fuel to 40% rich and with the 60 pill, A/F still shot off the chart(over 18:1).

Ricksterman · 10-17-2004, 03:37 PM

There was no time between cat-back install and dyno, but with A/F at WOT at 15, I wasn't going to be driving it anywhere, too risky for me. Putting in the stock tune brought the A/F down to a flat 13. If I can I will go back to the dyno next week and see what the computer is doing (i.e. richening or leaning it out). An interesting point is that stock the A/F was 13.7 to 13.5, so with a few days driving I'll see how the computer is adjusting.

10-16-2004, 06:15 PM	#1
Ricksterman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 253	Serious issues with Predator tune and running LEAN! Ok, I had my Magnaflow cat-back put in today, and was going to do some dynotuning afterward. Before I get into the problem, I'll give some background. I have a KN Aircharger, PHP intake spacer and underdrive pulleys, and with Diablo tune (Predator), and timing advanced 10% my numbers were: 286HP 310TQ, A/F 13.0 flat, and max timing about 19-17 from 4-6K (not great but I can live with it). After the cat-back my A/F was 14-15! and of course we couldn't do a full pull. No matter what I did to the fuel at 2-4 or 4-7K, the A/F would not go below 14, and that was at the 0 setting, richening it up only made it worse???? (and yes I tried leaning it out incase something was backward) Finally I put the factory tune back in, and viola A/F 13.0 flat and short term fuel is at less then 1% (both banks) WOT 6400 RPM. I gained 1 HP from putting in 10% advance at this point, and the advance was 20-17 WOT 4-6 (wow even better than the Diablo tune). I emailed their tech support which have been good so far, but this is really a warning to everyone here who may mod without checking results, if I had just bolted on the cat-back witht the Diablo tune, I very well could be posting another thread "BLOWN MOTOR". I have gotten excellent advice and suggestions from people here, if anyone can think of why the predator was not adjusting squat let me know (v50a btw). Oh yeah with the factory tune and the mods the final pull (nice and hot after 10+pulls in an hour and half): 292HP 315TQ. Last edited by Ricksterman; 10-16-2004 at 06:21 PM.

10-16-2004, 06:28 PM	#2
Shaunheb 12 second club! Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Oakley , CA Posts: 101	I had the same thing happen to me. We did one pull with the factory tune and the car made 305rwhp, the next 5 pulls they did with the predator we never managed to get over 287rwhp no matter what was adjusted. almost nothing changed. So the guy doing the tune finally called the predator people for some help. What ended up happening is we found out that we had the wrong program in the pred. and that we needed the update. we hooked the thing up and downloaded the new program and walla the car started to respond. Not sure if this will help but just my experince.Also i was told when I purchased it that the pred was the updated version , and that turnd out to be a lie. __________________ 2004 Azure Blue Steeda Tri-ax Shifter removed air silencer K&N filter strut tower brace Slp loud mouth w/offroad x pipe steeda underdrive pulleys Superior 31 spline axles 4:10's Torsen Diff. PHP intake spacer Diablo predator 3/4 shaker extension Raptor Shift light 26x10.5x15 ET Street's Best ET:12.713 @ 106.867 ******************** I'm all out a money wait....but not credit! Whats next! Oh No, nothings next I'm all out of credit too.....

10-16-2004, 09:15 PM	#4
TicketRed03 Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Simi Valley, SoCal Posts: 110	Is the v50a the most up-to-date version that is out there? __________________ 03 Torch Red Mach 1, 5-speed w/ IUP PERFORMANCE: Magnaflow cat-back MRT short throw shifter K&N AirCharger MRT Catted H-pipe APPEARANCE: MGW-cigarette lighter MGW-e-brake handle MGW-A/C knobs MRT Street Performance Springs

10-17-2004, 01:11 AM	#6
pthornton Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Austin, TX Posts: 61	How long did you drive the car between the install of the exhaust parts and the dyno time? When you make a change to the car, the air fuel ratio can swing wildly from one extreme to the other before it "learns" the new setup. Clearing the memory of the computer when making changes can lessen this, but it still can swing. I would make sure you have several hours of driving at a minimum before making adjustments. Reloading the stock tune probably reset the memory. Randy __________________ Randy 2004 Azure Mach1 1996 Saleen S281 Convertible 1989 Saleen Coupe http://www.mysaleens.com/

10-17-2004, 01:28 AM	#7
ShakeMe Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: TX. Posts: 2,511	This graph is from my Mach using a dry nitrous setup and 100/60 pills. I maxed out the fuel to 40% rich and with the 60 pill, A/F still shot off the chart(over 18:1). __________________ 03 Mach DSG Build Date 07/25/03 Feb 09 N2O 10.91 @ 124.21(1.55 60ft) Feb 09 NA 11.85 @ 112.87 (1.60 60ft)

10-16-2004, 06:49 PM	#3
Ricksterman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 253	Good point, but without the cat-back the Diablo tune added 5 HP (mostly from leaing out the A/F from 12.5 to 13.0), which makes me wonder if that is the problem here, did you see the software version on yours when it was the wrong program? Mine says v50a, so I assume it's correct...

10-16-2004, 10:23 PM	#5
Ricksterman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 253	No the r50b is, and I dl it into the predator a while ago, unless Diablo has other suggestions I will try to dynotune with the updated calibration, and see if anything improves. I'm not unhappy with where the car is now (stock tune essentially), but I paid over 300 for the Predator and I thought I was getting more than a datalogger....

10-17-2004, 03:37 PM	#8
Ricksterman Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Albuquerque NM Posts: 253	There was no time between cat-back install and dyno, but with A/F at WOT at 15, I wasn't going to be driving it anywhere, too risky for me. Putting in the stock tune brought the A/F down to a flat 13. If I can I will go back to the dyno next week and see what the computer is doing (i.e. richening or leaning it out). An interesting point is that stock the A/F was 13.7 to 13.5, so with a few days driving I'll see how the computer is adjusting.

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