Car blew up....now what??

[lxh89]

Originally Posted by corysmach1

Ok so if I go the boost route....lets say 550-600rwhp what kind of fuel system should I go with....(preferably cheaper) how much is this gonna cost?

Cobra tank, dual Ford GT pumps, modified FPDM & a wiring upgrade from battery direct FPDM and from FPDM to Fuel Pump hat.

My fuel system is at 90% duty cycle with that configuration. Still running stock fuel rails, stock fuel line and stock cobra fuel hat. That's about the cheapest option for that much power with boost.

You could drop the dual-hat assembly into your mach fuel tank, but there's no baffling so your mileage may vary.

Tony

[NeverEnuff]

If I had the money...I would go back to nitrous...Im with NAZ on this. We have both had nitrous and FI, him turbo, me super...and I just love an ALL MOTOR combo with some spray in case you need it. If I have a buyer for my ATi kit...its gone.

[corysmach1]

Originally Posted by lxh89

Cobra tank, dual Ford GT pumps, modified FPDM & a wiring upgrade from battery direct FPDM and from FPDM to Fuel Pump hat.

My fuel system is at 90% duty cycle with that configuration. Still running stock fuel rails, stock fuel line and stock cobra fuel hat. That's about the cheapest option for that much power with boost.

You could drop the dual-hat assembly into your mach fuel tank, but there's no baffling so your mileage may vary.

Tony

Ok, how much would that setup run me?

[corysmach1]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff

If I had the money...I would go back to nitrous...Im with NAZ on this. We have both had nitrous and FI, him turbo, me super...and I just love an ALL MOTOR combo with some spray in case you need it. If I have a buyer for my ATi kit...its gone.

Yes I have thought about just keeping the spray and doing a 10:1-11:1 setup with some cams.....just dont really know how much I could spray on pump gas with this setup?

[NeverEnuff]

I was spraying 150 on pump gas with my 2V. Just have to pull back timing. The main concern is your stock intake runners are long. Get a lot of N2O and Fuel running through that and you might get puddles. I think there have been people that have sprayed more than 150, but I am not sure who.

I would hit NAZ up on this.

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff

...and I just love an ALL MOTOR combo with some spray in case you need it.

+2

[corysmach1]

Originally Posted by Ben99GT

+2

Which is really expensive. Lets say I do the N/A setup with 10:1 or 11:1 with some nice cams and a ported intake I might hit it 360-370rwhp???? Then do a 100 shot on top of that.

[my fear]

Originally Posted by Marlboro_Man

We TEXAS boys work FAST!!! It's HOT down here ya know!

amen to that!!!

[NeverEnuff]

If you do a Big Bore, some nasty crower III cams, nice ported heads, and all the other bolt ons, you will be clearing 400-425rwhp FOR SURE.

NAZ hit something like 459rwhp on his OLD Big Bore setup.

[lxh89]

Any way you slice/dice it, boost/nitrous, you are going to pay.

Having moved from a nitrous combination to positive displacement blower, I can say I enjoy the fact that all I need is some 93 octane pump gas and Im good to go.

You start spraying more than 150, and you need higher octane fuel. At 6.50+ a gal for 104 octane, that's going to get pricey at the track coupled with nitrous bottle refills.

Nitrous is a lot of fun and with a blower setup, you can always add the bottle later and have dual power adders. It's much harder, more expensive to convert a high compression nitrous motor to a blower at a later time. That's the way I looked at it when I was deciding my options.

I'd rather have flexibility than paint myself into a corner with nitrous.

Tony

[corysmach1]

Originally Posted by NeverEnuff

If you do a Big Bore, some nasty crower III cams, nice ported heads, and all the other bolt ons, you will be clearing 400-425rwhp FOR SURE.

NAZ hit something like 459rwhp on his OLD Big Bore setup.

I have been trying to research all of this **** and cannot find prices on Big bore stuff, I can only find stroker stuff which I do not want. Yes Nazmans car was amazing I think it was 304 BB and he also had the FR500 intake which I would never be able to afford ($3k). I have been looking at the MMR shortblocks especially the Street Mod (up to 800 hp) for $2800???? How would that do with some stage 3's ported intake and a 100 shot??? On pump gas and either 10:1 or 11:1???

[Ben99GT]

His new setup is more amazing, and it's a 324" bb/stroker with a Sullivan intake.

[bigpapa]

Originally Posted by corysmach1

I have been trying to research all of this **** and cannot find prices on Big bore stuff, I can only find stroker stuff which I do not want. Yes Nazmans car was amazing I think it was 304 BB and he also had the FR500 intake which I would never be able to afford ($3k). I have been looking at the MMR shortblocks especially the Street Mod (up to 800 hp) for $2800???? How would that do with some stage 3's ported intake and a 100 shot??? On pump gas and either 10:1 or 11:1???

Big bore you have 3 options for blocks

ford racing 5.0 block 2K plus rotating assembly so around 5K for the shortblock alone

big bore darton block which is 1400 to a block you own in good shape plus a rotating assembly for 5K for the shortblock

or an aluminator which is about the same price again 5K for a complete shortblock.

Then you would have to run good gas with the nitrous over a 150 shot and really corey you needed to be running cam2 with 150 shot. I know I spoke with you about a stand alone fuel system for the spray that has 116 octane fuel in it.

The cheapest route to power in a mod motor is a blower, no ifs ands or buts.
The most reliable, and perhaps expensive is NA
Turbo is a very very close second for cost, but with less reliability.

Forged shortblock and a used blower set up is the easiest. As for fuel as someone stated earlier Cobra pumps and tank is the cheapest easiest route to go. The combo I think is around 600 dollars.


So here is what you are faced with.

You snapped a rod through the block from what Preston said to me over the phone. Which means the small end made the new block breather. When this happened on my car the piston came up and smacked the bottom of the head. Preston then told me that the heads are fine because the plugs were not smashed. I was uber confused by that because in a mod motor the piston could never crush the plug, but it can still crush the head.

So with that in mind I put together what I think you will be looking at for a NA set up and a blower set up, I'm sure I will leave some items out of each, but others will chime. I will be doing these combos as cheep as possible with finding used parts etc


NA 350-370 rwhp
Nitrous 410-440 rwhp (GO EASY ON THE SB)
used aviator long block 1700
comp 106400 cams 1000
livernois spings 360
your long tubes 0
used electric water pump 260
Custom PSR intake 800
your CAI
used 42lb injectors 150
your x cal and maf 0

4380 plus any install costs minus what you can sell off your motor if anything
mild spray with this to save the SB no more than 7200 rpm


NA 380-410rwhp
Nitrous 500-575 rwhp
Forged stroker SB 11:1 3800
crower stage 3 900
light head port valve job 950
livernois springs 360
your long tubes 0
used electric water pump 260
your cai 0
sullivan intake set up 1000
used 42lb injectors 150
your x cal and maf 0
cobra pumps and tank 600

8020 plus any install costs assuming that you can mill your heads and be ok
heavy spray use WITH PROPER FUEL OCTANE as in top choice fuels
This combo is by the best track combo by far




Centri blower car 400-450 rwhp
used aviator long block 1700
stock cams/springs
stock intake
used blower set up 2500
used 42 lb injectors 150
Cobra pumps and tank 600

4950 plus any install costs
you can sell your longtubes, heads(if ok), and nitrous kit. which should be around 1k-1500 in proceeds.


I don't think I need to go any further as I think the rest of the options get pretty expensive too.

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted by bigpapa

Big bore you have 3 options for blocks

ford racing 5.0 block 2K plus rotating assembly so around 5K for the shortblock alone

big bore darton block which is 1400 to a block you own in good shape plus a rotating assembly for 5K for the shortblock

or an aluminator which is about the same price again 5K for a complete shortblock.

You forgot option 4 which is also the cheapest, score a factory aluminum block and dry sleeve it.

[bigpapa]

Originally Posted by Ben99GT

You forgot option 4 which is also the cheapest, score a factory aluminum block and dry sleeve it.

No I left that out as a dry sleeve is not to be used with the spray.

EDIT: several people who have done the LA sleeves with a power adder have had less than optimum results. So most builders will tell you that the dry sleeve = NA.

[corysmach1]

Originally Posted by bigpapa

Big bore you have 3 options for blocks

ford racing 5.0 block 2K plus rotating assembly so around 5K for the shortblock alone

big bore darton block which is 1400 to a block you own in good shape plus a rotating assembly for 5K for the shortblock

or an aluminator which is about the same price again 5K for a complete shortblock.

Then you would have to run good gas with the nitrous over a 150 shot and really corey you needed to be running cam2 with 150 shot. I know I spoke with you about a stand alone fuel system for the spray that has 116 octane fuel in it.

The cheapest route to power in a mod motor is a blower, no ifs ands or buts.
The most reliable, and perhaps expensive is NA
Turbo is a very very close second for cost, but with less reliability.

Forged shortblock and a used blower set up is the easiest. As for fuel as someone stated earlier Cobra pumps and tank is the cheapest easiest route to go. The combo I think is around 600 dollars.


So here is what you are faced with.

You snapped a rod through the block from what Preston said to me over the phone. Which means the small end made the new block breather. When this happened on my car the piston came up and smacked the bottom of the head. Preston then told me that the heads are fine because the plugs were not smashed. I was uber confused by that because in a mod motor the piston could never crush the plug, but it can still crush the head.

So with that in mind I put together what I think you will be looking at for a NA set up and a blower set up, I'm sure I will leave some items out of each, but others will chime. I will be doing these combos as cheep as possible with finding used parts etc


NA 350-370 rwhp
Nitrous 410-440 rwhp (GO EASY ON THE SB)
used aviator long block 1700
comp 106400 cams 1000
livernois spings 360
your long tubes 0
used electric water pump 260
Custom PSR intake 800
your CAI
used 42lb injectors 150
your x cal and maf 0

4380 plus any install costs minus what you can sell off your motor if anything
mild spray with this to save the SB no more than 7200 rpm


NA 380-410rwhp
Nitrous 500-575 rwhp
Forged stroker SB 11:1 3800
crower stage 3 900
light head port valve job 950
livernois springs 360
your long tubes 0
used electric water pump 260
your cai 0
sullivan intake set up 1000
used 42lb injectors 150
your x cal and maf 0
cobra pumps and tank 600

8020 plus any install costs assuming that you can mill your heads and be ok
heavy spray use WITH PROPER FUEL OCTANE as in top choice fuels
This combo is by the best track combo by far




Centri blower car 400-450 rwhp
used aviator long block 1700
stock cams/springs
stock intake
used blower set up 2500
used 42 lb injectors 150
Cobra pumps and tank 600

4950 plus any install costs
you can sell your longtubes, heads(if ok), and nitrous kit. which should be around 1k-1500 in proceeds.


I don't think I need to go any further as I think the rest of the options get pretty expensive too.

Thanks Greg you really broke it down for me. My whole thing is if I am going to fix it I am at least goin to put a forged shor block in it.

Here is what I was thinking:

MMR short block- $2800 (11:1)
Stage 3 cams -$1500
Ported Intake-$400
NA-350-370rwhp
Nitrous-450-520rwhp-(100-150 shot)
Total= $4700 Plus labor

MMR Shortblock-$2800(9:5:1)
Used blower setup $2500-3K
Cobra Pumps and tank-$600
Total-$5900 Plus labor

With the blower setup sell my spray kit -$800-1,000.

So I guess it makes it close what do you guys think???

[bigpapa]

Originally Posted by corysmach1

Thanks Greg you really broke it down for me. My whole thing is if I am going to fix it I am at least goin to put a forged shor block in it.

Here is what I was thinking:

MMR short block- $2800 (11:1)
Stage 3 cams -$1500
Ported Intake-$400
NA-350-370rwhp
Nitrous-450-520rwhp-(100-150 shot)
Total= $4700 Plus labor

MMR Shortblock-$2800(9:5:1)
Used blower setup $2500-3K
Cobra Pumps and tank-$600
Total-$5900 Plus labor

With the blower setup sell my spray kit -$800-1,000.

So I guess it makes it close what do you guys think???

Your pricing on the mmr motor is low, if you do a forged motor you will want main studs, plus shipping from them is over 400 dollars now a days, plus you need a new oil pump. You will need head gaskets, and either a new bolt set or head studs. And to get 11:1 you have to do custom pistons with a 4.6 or you have to go stroker.

Also keep in mind that if you drop the compression a little more on the blower motor you will get away with more boost on pump gas.

[Linumup]

You guys forgot option 5 !!!

ROFL

[bigpapa]

Originally Posted by Linumup

You guys forgot option 5 !!!

ROFL

I left option 5 out due to it being in the wrong time zone.

[Ben99GT]

Originally Posted by bigpapa

No I left that out as a dry sleeve is not to be used with the spray.

EDIT: several people who have done the LA sleeves with a power adder have had less than optimum results. So most builders will tell you that the dry sleeve = NA.

What issues are seen with dry sleeves and the spray?

I believe MP says a dry sleeve can be used with up 18 pounds of boost, IIRC.

[bigpapa]

Originally Posted by Ben99GT

What issues are seen with dry sleeves and the spray?

I believe MP says a dry sleeve can be used with up 18 pounds of boost, IIRC.

Cracked sleeves and ring gawing. Mike T at MP would be a good person to ask about nitrous and a dry sleeve.

[Nazman]

Originally Posted by Ben99GT

What issues are seen with dry sleeves and the spray?

I believe MP says a dry sleeve can be used with up 18 pounds of boost, IIRC.

I put over 100 15LBS bottle of nitrous on my drive sleved BB @ 7850RPMs with no problems.

As Ben stated, MP recomends up-to 18 PSI with their dry sleved.

He could also go with a 300CI BB instead of the comon 304CIs. That extra material on the sleeve will help with durability not to mention the extra surface for head gasket sealing.

The key with the dry sleve (as well with any other combo) is no detonation, good quality fuel with conservative tuning (even know I was very agressive with mine running 23 deg with a 175 shot but on C16). On pump gas I was able to run 150 with a conservative tune and MS109 on an agressive tune.

If you want to turn the higher RPMs then Ill recomend billet rods (if turning 7500+ on the regular basis). If the big RPM is a must then, you will either need a good PSR, Sullivan or FR500. The Sullivan with the right cams (read: Custume) is the best deal. The complete Sullivan will run you ~1400 bones.

Fuel system? I ran Terminator tank, Terminator pumps and KB BAP up-to 620+RW on Nitrous along with 39LBS Terminator injectors with no problem.

Ill recomend aftermarket fuel rails as this will help with the fuel volume during the initial Nitrous activation and will not cause the momentary lean condition assosiated with returnless systems. The wimpy stock fuel rails do not hold enough volume to satisfy that initial 200-300 RPM hit...after that they are good.

Who ever builds your motor (Ill recomend only Modular Performance) needs to set up your ring gap for nitrous usage. The max amounth of nitrous you plan on running will determine the ring gap.

As far as performance goes, I was able to go 10.42 @ 137MPH on nitrous with that combo on a full weight car, it would gone faster but I was limited to my RPMs due to my 4.56 gear and me going thru the traps on the limiter. But with a 4.30 it would have gone 9s.

On my current motor, I just tried a 200 shot on her and OMG, she is beyond sick! I plan on a 300 shot on the controller.

Plan your combo and think about what you want out the car.

Naz

[NeverEnuff]

**** you NAZ. I want nitrous now...again.

[corysmach1]

Man this **** just keeps gettin more and more expensive.