Considering 5.4l Swap

[TorchedMach1]

Well first of all i'm new to the forum so hi to all!

Now to the point!!! I have an 03 Mach1 and have been considering the 5.4l 4v swap. Has anyone here done one, or have any input on the subject?
Any input would be appreciated.

[birdman941]

I am not sure if it has been done on a Mach 1 with the shaker functional, but it has been done in 96 and later Mustangs.
Boss 330 on www.corral.net has one he built that does 9's.
His name is Al Pappito, and has a shop in Vero Beach, Fl.
His site is: www.boss330racing.com
The 2000 Cobra R had a 5.4 32V from the factory, but there were only 300 made. Parts for those cars are made of "unobtanium".
There are a lot of fitment issues.
The engine is both taller and wider than a 4.6 32V, there isn't much out there as far as streetable intakes, headers and very tight if you can even find a set that will work.
But it will fit,I will be building one this summer in a 2004 body in white.

[beerformeplz]

Use the search feature, its been discussed before.

[TorchedMach1]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

Use the search feature, its been discussed before.

I tried but wasn't able to find much, well not on a Mach atleast. Alot of guys have done the 2v swap on GTs. I was mainly wanting info for a 4v swap on a mach.

[San Pedro Mach]

First off, welcome.

I remember reading that someone had stuck a 5.4 into a new-edge Mustang GT but I think that was at SVTP. Try doing a search there if nothing turns-up here.

[TorchedMach1]

Thats one of mine worries, I want the shaker to remain functional. Is it possible to get the Cobra R k-member? That would drop the engine an inch to help clear the shaker. I've also been told my intake will provide a sufficient amount of air to the engine to around 400rwhp. Reichard Racing makes plates for the intake so it will match up to the 5.4.

[TorchedMach1]

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder

I don't remember which mfg makes the tube k, but there's one out there for this.
Why do you wanna choke the 5.4 with this manifold?
To have the 5.4 and the scoop, you will have to have a bunch of custom things done. BUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!

What all does a bunch entail???
I would really like to keep the shaker.

I was just told it wouldn't really choke the engine.
Have any ideas on a manifold i could go with?

[lxh89]

I looked at doing this project briefly on my 98 cobra and after much research (and this was before the Sullivan Intake), I came to the conclusion I could make a really fast 4.6L car (or big bore/stroker 4.6 base) for the same price I could get a relatively fast 5.4L.

Obviously since I am driving a mach 1, we see what happened :P

If you do decide to pursue the project, I think it would be fun but costly. Keep us updated if you take the plunge.

[sampson101st]

you could look at a 2000 cobra r k member. (5.4 in a mustang factory) but that i think was a 2v. it sits 1 " lower if i remember right. but there is NO WAY that youw ill be able to keep the shaker looking factory. look in this months mm&ff and there is a 5.4 installed in a few stangs ie fox and a sn95, if i remember right, and it wont even sit under a big cowl. but it was fast....10 sec long block stock in a fox. but the fact remains, its just to biggggggg and toooooooo wide to be an easy swap. you would be better off gettting a FOX body and using it. cutting that wouldnt be so bad if oyu had to cut and weld some back toghther if oyu had too.
i would love to see someone do the swap, hell i might even take time off work here in iraq to come and help at no cost if the food was free, ahhahaah hope someone does it, but i feel oyur pain on all the R&D you have to do!!!

[birdman941]

The 2000 Cobra "R" has the same X member as a GT, Cobra, etc.
I have been researching this for months, and worked directly next to the engineers developing it when I worked for Ford.
I saw the prototype every morning for 2 weeks.
Save some dough.
Later this year, we may have something for you guys on the 5.4 thing.
With the SHAKER FUNCTIONAL.

[TorchedMach1]

Originally Posted by birdman941

The 2000 Cobra "R" has the same X member as a GT, Cobra, etc.
I have been researching this for months, and worked directly next to the engineers developing it when I worked for Ford.
I saw the prototype every morning for 2 weeks.
Save some dough.
Later this year, we may have something for you guys on the 5.4 thing.
With the SHAKER FUNCTIONAL.

So Ford is finally gonnna reward all us mustang guys and give us something with a 5.4 and a shaker hood. That would be awesome!!!

2v or 4v??? Or can u not say???

[birdman941]

Not Ford, I am no longer at Ford.
I am considering some "Private Development" possibly with another member here who shall remain nameless.
Just bought an unequipped shop, and should be up and running soon.

Would there be any interest if there was a 5.4 32V "Swap kit"
which kept the Mach 1 shaker functional?
Possibly even making it "invisible" to the unknowing or untrained eye.
I am planning on making it not cheap, but reasonable.

[04DSG Mach]

I have a set of complete 2000 R heads that I'm experimenting with now. Let me tell you some details/ problems

FROM: Testing the 2000 Mustang Cobra R
Driving The Wheels Off The Fastest Mustang Cobra Ever

"The modifications necessary to produce the R-model engine centered around durability, power production, and manufacturing. Ed Olin of Ford’s Advanced Powertrain Engineering, and a two-time participant in our 4.6 Shootout, was the development engineer on the new engine.

The major issue was the 5.4’s small bore (identical to the 4.6) and long-stroke layout. Without forced induction, elevated rpm had to play a role, and that meant blistering piston speeds. Define blistering? The engineers didn’t have the exact number at their fingertips, but they said it was right next to the Jaguar Formula One racing engine, which has a short stroke but turns 18,000 rpm! For the R-model, this immediately disqualified the stock powdered-metal connecting rod, which was replaced by Carillo steel forgings.


The forged aluminum piston was modified from the stout 5.4 Lightning slug with thicker walls and pin bosses, and with a higher flat-top to get the compression up to 9.6:1. A stronger piston pin and a unique harmonic damper were also developed.

Making the necessary horsepower meant Olin needed upgraded cylinder heads, and he came close with DOHC heads from the Rough Riders off-road racing program. As he put it, "That was a major help, and it really paved the way for our work. Initial development was a success, but because of tooling limitations, we had to design new heads for the Cobra R. They’re similar to the 4.6 Cobra heads, but with a lot more flow through the intake and exhaust ports."

By reshaping both the intake and exhaust ports, redesigning the valve heads, and going to a 2mm larger exhaust valve than found in the 4.6, the engineers saw peak airflow increase 25 percent. We’ll bet Olin’s after-hours drag racing program didn’t hurt at this stage, either. Keeping the heads in place are unique, high-strength bolts.

Funny cams with an extra 0.100 inch of lift over the Navigator’s bump sticks were developed. Duration was kept relatively short for driveability, meaning the opening and closing ramps are good and aggressive. The production cam chains were micropolished to withstand the rpm."


With all the being said, here is what I have learned from asking many questions:

Some of what I've learned can also be found on this board. Hope this helps.

The Cobra R/ Ford GT heads have unique ports. They are 1'' longer
than all other mod heads, and the ports are raised about .400''. This means a R manifold will sit on a Navi engine, the bolts will go in but the ports miss by .400''. This also means a Sullivan 5.4 Navi manifold will sit on R/GT heads but the ports are nowhere close to lining up.

The aussise Boss engine is equipped with standard '03 4.6 (Mach 1, Aviator, Maruder, Cobra heads) dohc heads. This head does not have the port volume to feed a performance 5.4. The 99-'02 navigator had it's own head( Large voulme intake ports) when properly ported do a pretty good job. The R/GT had/has a totally different port shape and location. None of the manifolds intermix without a tremendious amount of work.

With all of that being said, here is where I stand in my situation. The 2000 R heads flow unbellievable and the cams in these bad boys are also great. I have not had any work done to them at this point and really don't think I will. (I have the cam specs somewhere if anybody wants them)

I have these heads sitting on a MarkVIII block right now and I'm am waiting on a port and polished intake from LINEMUP. Once that arrives I will be taking it to my engine builder (the same one LINEMUP used for his 5.3 stroker) and he is going to see what he can do and how much work really has to be done to get the manifold to mesh with the heads correctly.

If the work is to much of a hassle I will be letting go of the heads and I will let anybody know if anyone is intrested.

I can try to answer anyother questions, I have learned alot about some of this stuff. Let me know if anybody else knows new ways to making this work. Thanks alot. Hope I helped in some way.

Tyler

[birdman941]

The 00"R" is an amazing car.
The heads are fantastic, and the Ford GT uses a similar head.
The bolt holes and ports do not line up with "normal" modular intakes, which is a shame.
At the test track in Naples, Fl. where I worked, if I recall correctly the 00"R" did 186 MPH on the straightaway there.
I remember being in the trailer on the side of the track watching it whiz by.
My Site Supervisor drove it, and was amazed by it.
My old boss by the way, used to work for SVO before he was my boss, and worked with the Roush Trans Am teams as a chassis engineer.
I would imagine it would take a lot to impress him.
A 5.4 in a Mustang is doable, but it's gonna take a lot of work.
I am going to do it. Keep an eye out this summer.
My Body in white project is slated for it.

[TorchedMach1]

Originally Posted by birdman941

Not Ford, I am considering some "Private Development" possibly with another member here who shall remain nameless.
Just bought an unequipped shop, and should be up and running soon.

Would there be any interest if there was a 5.4 32V "Swap kit"
which kept the Mach 1 shaker functional?
Possibly even making it "invisible" to the unknowing or untrained eye.
I am planning on making it not cheap, but reasonable.

Well obviously I would be sold on a 5.4l 32v swap kit espescially if it kept the functional shaker hood. I know there would be alot of GT that would be interested in a 5.4l swap if there was a kit. Another thing I really liked about the swap is that it is hard for the untrained eye to see what is actually under the intake and heads.

Let me know if you need a test car for that 5.4l swap kit.

[birdman941]

Already have the car for it.

[sampson101st]

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder

DUDE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Stick to things that you KNOW for sure!
A COBR R was a 4V ENGINE!!!
What does THIS look like???

yeah, looks like a cobra R. you can see i posted that i wasnt sure... right?
funny i could by a cobra R in 3 months of saving, but a better motor could be built for a fraction of the price. i could strap you in my 9 sec car for 1/3 of the price of that. but what do i know. im a push rod guy!

[sampson101st]

what did the body in white cost you? if oyu dont mind. pm me