Questions on catted h and x pipes.

[edarre]

I was wondering if anyone knows if the catted h and x pipes are emissions legal in California and would pass the smog test?
Thanks!

[ThatsBAD06]

Yeah it will

[351c.i.d]

No they are not emissions legal in California.
Any time you remove or tamper with the stock emissions equipment, it is illegal, plain and simple.
They may pass the sniffer but they legally can not pass the visual. Unless of course you find a smog shop that's muscle car friendly.

[Orange whip 04]

Well, the idea of having the H and X pipes with cats are specificaly for that reason to pass emissions. However, i have read some posts here that idicate that even with a catted H or X pipe, they still were not able to pass emissons in there area. Iam not sure if thats due to a defect with the catted mid pipes or with the emission machine, or if states or counties regulate what numbers are acceptable for an engine to pass. I have personaly tired to contact the EPA about this protocal and How, and who are responsable for regulating emissions in the areas. I still have not been given any iformation about this and most .gov websights dont explaine what the requirments are. As far as iam concerned they are all big corupted organisations that brainwash people in all communitys to make people think our air is bad. And its all a waste of money. Just my two cents. With respect to California, there appears to be 3 organisations that are fighting about whos in charge of regulating these laws. The EPA, CARB, and the peoples republic of California. To my understanding the EPA makes the rules for the land concerning emissions and its up to each individuals state to carry out the EPA's regulations. However, with the two additonal organisations pertaining to California, CARB and the peoples republic, they try to over step the boundrys of the EPA rules by making them more difficult for consumers, specificaly for California. As it is and from what other members have said, Any alteration or removal of factory cats in lue of the H or X, either catted or offroad mid pipes are not leagal. In various counties in California they have emission police on the road looking for altered emission componets and can sight tickets on the spot or request that you make a court appearnce to prove reapirs were made. Combine this with state inspections and emission testings makes it difficult for a mach 1 owner to change his exhaust in any way shape or form. Some areas may not have testing or inspections and may be vary leaniant on these changes. Its up to you to do your research and know what type of a community you live in. If you live in an eviromentalty friendly or high advocacey of green groups, chances are emission testings and inspections are eminant. Your only real choices are to change your mid pipe to what you want and take a chance in your community. Move to a county or state that doesnt have any emission testing, inspections, or emission police. Or be saticfied with your current exhaust setup and carry on as you normaly do. We feel sorry for you guys in California that deal with these rules and regulations on a daily bassis. Tuff decissions to make. Good luck

[edarre]

Thanks for the info. guys because I had an o/r bassani x-pipe and I got pulled over and got a fix it ticket and I ended up putting my stock h-pipe back on. The reason I ask about the emissions is because I want the extra power of an aftermarket midpipe, yet I don't want to be changing it all the time if it is not legal. So I think I am just gonna stick to the stock pipe and forget about modifying the midpipe anymore. Once again guys, Thanks.

[Orange whip 04]

Well, we do respect your decission and its probably a good one. However, i will suggest that there are ways around the emission police. If your looking for some extra decibles and some tone changes with out the threat of not being able to pass emissions, you could just go with a cat back system. They are emission legal and you shouldnt be harassed by the police. I would recomend SLP because you can control your volume with this setup alot better than you can with for example a flowmaster system. The SLP system is only loud above 3000 rpms and i would guess most of your driving is done below 3000 rpm. If you wanted even quieter I would suggest the Magnaflow system but not the pack version. Now, if you feel really lucky buy yourself a used stock H mid pipe with cats still intacted. If you have the ability, cut open the cats and remove the substraight material from the exhaust. Weld the tops back on the cat cans and reinstall the heat shields to cover up the welds. Now you have a open factory H mid pipe that looks like the factory mid pipe to the emission police and not an aftermarket. Now, combine the factory H mid pipe with the quiet version Magnaflow cat back system and you'll have the power and a nice tone that would be too loud. Now ofcourse this system is not going to pass emissions, but at least you wont attract any unwanted attention from the on the spot emission police. If you have emission testing in your area then you can swap back and forth between H pipes. You'll have one that you can test with and pass and the other for dirving around until you have to go back for testing.

[Orange whip 04]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

. Now, combine the factory H mid pipe with the quiet version Magnaflow cat back system and you'll have the power and a nice tone that would be too loud.

Sorry, Ment to say WOULDNT be too loud.

[ShakeMe]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

Well, we do respect your decission and its probably a good one. However, i will suggest that there are ways around the emission police. If your looking for some extra decibles and some tone changes with out the threat of not being able to pass emissions, you could just go with a cat back system. They are emission legal and you shouldnt be harassed by the police. I would recomend SLP because you can control your volume with this setup alot better than you can with for example a flowmaster system. The SLP system is only loud above 3000 rpms and i would guess most of your driving is done below 3000 rpm. If you wanted even quieter I would suggest the Magnaflow system but not the pack version. Now, if you feel really lucky buy yourself a used stock H mid pipe with cats still intacted. If you have the ability, cut open the cats and remove the substraight material from the exhaust. Weld the tops back on the cat cans and reinstall the heat shields to cover up the welds. Now you have a open factory H mid pipe that looks like the factory mid pipe to the emission police and not an aftermarket. Now, combine the factory H mid pipe with the quiet version Magnaflow cat back system and you'll have the power and a nice tone that would be too loud. Now ofcourse this system is not going to pass emissions, but at least you wont attract any unwanted attention from the on the spot emission police. If you have emission testing in your area then you can swap back and forth between H pipes. You'll have one that you can test with and pass and the other for dirving around until you have to go back for testing.

The only thing wrong with gutting the cats is the road side testing that they do from time to time here. I've seen a set up where a two lane road was blocked and a camera with a device at ground level was aimed at the rear of the car. There was also a tow truck sitting there with a very official looking fellow in uniform

[Orange whip 04]

I just cant believe they do this to you guys. You would think that you commited some major crime like kill some one. With all the money that circulates with in those organisation it could be put to good use like keeping illegal aliens out of America or cleaing up drug traffic. Or anything that really really matters to the well being of our society. The enviroment is cleaner today than it ever has been as far as iam concerned. Its just soooo rediculous.

[Orange whip 04]

Originally Posted by ShakeMe

The only thing wrong with gutting the cats is the road side testing that they do from time to time here. I've seen a set up where a two lane road was blocked and a camera with a device at ground level was aimed at the rear of the car. There was also a tow truck sitting there with a very official looking fellow in uniform

So how does that work? your just driving down the road and all of a sudden everyone has to pull over to get tested for emission?? Do you have to pay for that? Do they compensate you for time lost when going to work ? Doesnt that fall under illeagal search and seizure act? If they feel that you commited a crime dont they need a search warrant ?

[Orange whip 04]

Here some information regaurding the 4th ammendment


Searches of Cars and Their Occupants
Cars may be searched without a warrant whenever the car has been validly stopped and the police have probable cause to believe the car contains contraband or evidence. The reasons why no warrant is required for a car search are:

cars are easily moved and may disappear while a warrant is being sought, and
people driving cars do not have the same expectation of privacy in cars as they do in their homes.
If the police have probable cause to search the car, all compartments and packages that may contain the evidence or contraband being searched for are fair game.

While a police officer cannot search a car simply because the car was stopped for a traffic infraction -- since routine traffic stops are not arrests that would justify a "search incident to an arrest" -- the police can order the driver and any passengers out of the car for safety considerations, even though there is no suspicion of criminal wrongdoing other than the traffic infraction. The police also can "frisk" the occupants for weapons so long as they have a "reasonable suspicion" that the occupants are involved in criminal activity beyond the traffic violation and are reasonably concerned for their safety.

The police are sometimes accused of using technical traffic violations as a pretext for stopping the car for the real reason of conducting a further investigation that often includes a frisk and possible search of the vehicle. Sometimes these types of stops are allegedly based on racial profiling. Whatever the police officer's motives, however, if the officer had a valid reason to stop the vehicle, even a ticky-tack one like a broken rear taillight, the stop is legal. And, if the initial stop is valid, any lawful frisk, search or arrest that follows the stop is also valid.

[Orange whip 04]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

Here some information regaurding the 4th ammendment


While a police officer cannot search a car simply because the car was stopped for a traffic infraction.

WHAT IS A CIVIL TRAFFIC INFRACTION?

A civil traffic infraction is a non-criminal charge that can usually be disposed of by the payment of a civil penalty or an election to attend a defensive driving course. A court appearance is not required, except in cases where the violation involves an accident or property damage. Payment can be made by mail by using the traffic envelope provided by the officer, or in person by coming to our full service counter windows at one of the traffic locations or the Clerk's Records Center. Drop boxes are also available at each location.

Seems to me side road emission testing would fall into this catagory there for making it ilegal for police or governmental officials to perform this testing.

[ShakeMe]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

So how does that work? your just driving down the road and all of a sudden everyone has to pull over to get tested for emission?? Do you have to pay for that? Do they compensate you for time lost when going to work ? Doesnt that fall under illeagal search and seizure act? If they feel that you commited a crime dont they need a search warrant ?

They don't stop you. When you drive pass the sensor/device, if your car doesn't have cats I guess it senses that and takes a picture of your license plate. We also have cameras that take pictures of people that run Redlights A Redlight violation starts at $321.

Back to the original post. It's not worth the hassle, keep the cats. I know guys that risk it for the sound or the 10-15 HP and they don't even race. That ticket is even more.

[Orange whip 04]

Ok, so if they dont actualy stop you, my first suggestion to knock out the substraight would work, because you still have the factory looking catted midpipe right ?

[ShakeMe]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

Ok, so if they dont actualy stop you, my first suggestion to knock out the substraight would work, because you still have the factory looking catted midpipe right ?

Nope, because the cats turn fumes into O2. Without the O2 I think you have more NO2 and that would trigger the camera. If you go to a smog shop to have a test and only had the shell of the cats, the machine would still fail you. Unless you live here don't even try to understand it. Heck, we live here and still don't. The new trend is electric vehicles. So in 12-15 years everyone will have brain tumors from the EMF emitted by the big batteries in the cars :LAUGH:

[Orange whip 04]

Oh i understand it, So what your saying is you guys have technology that sences or sees a high rate of emission like HC (hydrocarbons), NOX (oxsides of nitrogen) and CO (carbon Monoxide) emitting from the tail pipe, enough to trigger a camera, if and when a tail pipe shows an excessive amount emitting from the tail pipe? If you have less 02 then you have more HC,NOX, and CO emitting from the tail pipe. What i dont understand is what happens after this camera takes a picture of your lisence plate? Are you issued a summons or ticket to appear some where ?

[Orange whip 04]

So let me set this senerio up.
I made my alterations to my mid pipe to make it look like nothing happen but they really dont contain cats. And iam driving down the road, minding my own business. and drive by an emission testing camera, and it sences more emissions from my tail pipe, which causes it to take a picture of my lisence. No big deal, A few days later i get summons or ticket that tells me to plead incocent or guilty. I sign it inocent and send it back with out paying. During this limbo time i switch my mid pipe back to my second catted factory mid pipe which is untouched and wait for my court appearance. I show up to court and tell the judge there is nothing wrong with my exhaust and that i would be willing to take an emission test. The judge says ok go for emission testing. I go take the emission test and i pass with flying colors. Go back to court to prove theres nothing wrong with my exhaust and i dont have to pay for anything. Judge says theres nothing wrong and iam dismissed with out penalty. A few days later i switch back to phony factory mid pipe and carry on driving. I might find a different route though. What happens if i put it in neutral while cruising through the emission check point LOL?

[edarre]

LOL, you are totally right and that is exactly what I did when I got pulled over and had to go to a state referee and get my car inspected. That is just too funny dude!

[ShakeMe]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

So let me set this senerio up.
I made my alterations to my mid pipe to make it look like nothing happen but they really dont contain cats. And iam driving down the road, minding my own business. and drive by an emission testing camera, and it sences more emissions from my tail pipe, which causes it to take a picture of my lisence. No big deal, A few days later i get summons or ticket that tells me to plead incocent or guilty. I sign it inocent and send it back with out paying. During this limbo time i switch my mid pipe back to my second catted factory mid pipe which is untouched and wait for my court appearance. I show up to court and tell the judge there is nothing wrong with my exhaust and that i would be willing to take an emission test. The judge says ok go for emission testing. I go take the emission test and i pass with flying colors. Go back to court to prove theres nothing wrong with my exhaust and i dont have to pay for anything. Judge says theres nothing wrong and iam dismissed with out penalty. A few days later i switch back to phony factory mid pipe and carry on driving. I might find a different route though. What happens if i put it in neutral while cruising through the emission check point LOL?

I can just see you on the news getting a beat down from LAPD :LAUGH:

[Orange whip 04]

Nah, it wouldnt get that far, but i love fighting loop holes in emission laws. Iam not going to let it rule my way of life. I have too much money invested in my vehicles to be bullied by the **** emission police.

[ShakeMe]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

Nah, it wouldnt get that far, but i love fighting loop holes in emission laws. Iam not going to let it rule my way of life. I have too much money invested in my vehicles to be bullied by the **** emission police.

You can always move to CA. to test the system I'll be moving to TX in a few months, where the Governor speaks english

[Orange whip 04]

No thanks, Going to stay in Michigan where we dont get Earthquakes, Forest fires, Texas twisters, Mud slides, sweltering climate, Huricaines, Judge killers, illegal Aliens, emission testing, inspections, and the emission police. Yeah we have to deal with a little snow and cold for a few months and maybe an ocasional thunderstorm but its all worth it to be here in Michigan. Home of the Mustang Yeah baby!!!