My First Mod Build

[na svt]

Ken, your results have gotten me thinking about building a 5.4 version of your engine, same compression and intake, a little more cam but going with an auto trans. I like the idea of making big power without having to spin to the moon and without spending $10k.

[lcaptmorg]

Would make for an awesome easy bracket racer that's for sure.

I think not having to use such a large dome on the pistons was big factor.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by lcaptmorg

I think not having to use such a large dome on the pistons was big factor.

I've been telling people keep the flat tops and mill the heads for years but for some reason they are afraid to cut them. Every Maybe your results will open some eyes.

[lcaptmorg]

I thinks that ends that debate.

[Bmeagher]

Originally Posted by na svt

Ken, your results have gotten me thinking about building a 5.4 version of your engine, same compression and intake, a little more cam but going with an auto trans. I like the idea of making big power without having to spin to the moon and without spending $10k.

So is there away to build a 450rwhp motor, for under 10k? Build one for me!
Where I live in Canada, there's no good mod engine builders.

[lcaptmorg]

I have way less than 10 k in mine.

[JRCEngineering]

Did you have any block work done by a machine shop? If so what needed to be done? Whats routine for building a new engine with an used block?

[lcaptmorg]

Yea I had my block gone over. It was bored, honed (with a torque plate of course) and I had the block decked to put my pistons .005 down to give me the compression that I wanted.

The only thing I would steer clear of (experienced engine builder please chime in as I do not have direct experience with this but have been told by other experienced mod builders.) is having the mains line honed. Because of the aluminum block and steal caps if its not done with the right equipment then wont come out right. Unless it has had a main bearing failure there is really no need for this anyhow.

Then hot tanked.

Before I took it in I took a file and small grinder to the block to knock off all of the sharp edges and casting marks. I have cut my self on enough engines lol.

When it cam back from being hot tanked I put it on the stand and in the driveway thoroughly cleaned the thing, Bores, water passages, oil ports etc. with bushes.

It took me a solid 3-4 days just to get my short block together but it was definitely worth it. Mostly the peace of mind knowing there were no corners cut and the specs were exactly where I wanted them. I had to make one additional trip to the machine shop to have the big ends on the rods opened up as the bearings were a little to tight.

[Roy]

You want a very good machine shop to do the line hone. Like you mentioned with a steel cap on an aluminum block its a little tricky. The hone will want to take all the mat'l off the block being its much softer than the cap. I bore gage the crank tunnel with no bearings with all fasteners torked in place. If it checks out I skip the line honing. Of course I check it again with the main bearings in place to check the oil clearance. I have a good friend that works at the REP and the machinery they use to machine the blocks is insane. It does everything from heating the block and dropping the sleeves in to the finish hone including everything in between. He has video of the complete process but cant give it to me or ide post it here.
I've never heard of an aluminum block being hot tanked. I deburr and glass bead them before machining.

[lcaptmorg]

That's exactly what I did with mine. Checked without the bearing and then again with. Fasteners torqued instead.


My mistake on the hot tanking, guess I was still half asleep when I was typing this morning. No hot tanking for aluminum blocks.

[Roy]

If the deck surface is warped real bad you should check and make sure the crank tunnel is straight. Ive seen blocks warped so bad even the crank tunnel is warped.

[stellasmechanic]

Do you mind sharing your bearing and ring specs you used?

I'm guessing you went with a shorter than stock head gasket or a higher CD piston?

[lcaptmorg]

Originally Posted by Roy

If the deck surface is warped real bad you should check and make sure the crank tunnel is straight. Ive seen blocks warped so bad even the crank tunnel is warped.

we had that problem on one of out hp turbo cars. block was completely out of square.

[lcaptmorg]

Originally Posted by stellasmechanic

Do you mind sharing your bearing and ring specs you used?

I'm guessing you went with a shorter than stock head gasket or a higher CD piston?

ended up using a .030 cometic gaskets. Plan was originaly to use a .036 with a zero deck but my machine guy talked me into leaving the piston .005 in the hole and using a smaller gasket.

CD was 1.200

Mains are set at .0023
Rods at .0022

Rings Top .018 Second and third .016

[stellasmechanic]

Originally Posted by lcaptmorg

ended up using a .030 cometic gaskets. Plan was originaly to use a .036 with a zero deck but my machine guy talked me into leaving the piston .005 in the hole and using a smaller gasket.

CD was 1.200

Mains are set at .0023
Rods at .0022

Rings Top .018 Second and third .016

Thanks man. I just got my stuff back from the balancer so need to start assembling soon.

Last question....For at least a day. What size injectors are you running? I have 42's but thinking I need 60's on E85.

[lcaptmorg]

Originally Posted by stellasmechanic

Thanks man. I just got my stuff back from the balancer so need to start assembling soon.

Last question....For at least a day. What size injectors are you running? I have 42's but thinking I need 60's on E85.

I used 60s. Would have to look back at data logs but belive they were at 82-84% duty cycle at 40psi

[stellasmechanic]

Originally Posted by lcaptmorg

I used 60s. Would have to look back at data logs but belive they were at 82-84% duty cycle at 40psi

60's it is.

[lcaptmorg]

Finally made it back to the dyno today. Peak numbers really didn't change. 469/405. Did wot pulls to 7500 thought with no hiccups.

Want to say huge thank to Josh Levin for walking me through getting this ECU tuned. I probably would have lost my mind with out his help.

Installed a lightweight bumper support, light weight battery, and pulled the rear speakers/amp rack out.

We will see what the added rpm and drop in 60lbs will yield next weekend.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by lcaptmorg

Finally made it back to the dyno today. Peak numbers really didn't change. 469/405. Did wot pulls to 7500 thought with no hiccups.

Where did the power peak and how much did it make at 7500? I want to get data on which to base changes to future intakes.

[lcaptmorg]

Peak hp still at 6700. Peak tq at 5500. hp at 7400 was about 400.


Fuel was moving around a bit so the curve is nowhere near as smooth as it should be. Working on it.

Makes over 400hp from 5200-7400

Makes 350lb ft from 3600-6900

[ModularMach1]

So was the computer upgrade even worth it since it made no more power with higher rpms? Need a different intake?

[stellasmechanic]

I bet it will be worth it since he won't be dropping out of the powerband when he shifts.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by stellasmechanic

I bet it will be worth it since he won't be dropping out of the powerband when he shifts.

Exactly, he was dropping down to 4000 on the 1-2 shift, by raising the shift point to 7300-7500 the power at the bottom of 2nd will be much higher. With that the average power seen I. The quarter will be much higher also.

[JL.Tuning]

It will help a ton, shifting is about average power production. If you look at your HP curve on a dynochart, it will somewhat represent a hill. Your goal would be to shift to the next gear after peak on the falling slope just as the power falls to the same level it will be at in the next gear on the rising slope. Because his peak power is near the rpm limits of the stock computer, the engine has to get back to its power band every shift, the rpm drops too low and average power production goes down.

Josh.

[lcaptmorg]

Agreed. I have run all the numbers through shift calculators and for the most power under the curve I would shift at 7500 or so. I doubt this 3650 is going to let me do that but I did get some 7200 shifts today just messing around so that should put me 1-2 shift up 500rpm or so.

With the 4.56s I was trapping right at 6600-6700. Put the 4.88s back in today which should put my trap rpm 7100-7200. Im looking forward to seeing what difference the rpm makes. Judging form the dyno sheets I should see a decent gain.

I really need a 2:95 first gear or god forbid an auto to spin this thing up a little.