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Old 11-10-2008, 10:07 PM   #76
birdman941
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Re: Head differences

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Originally Posted by JVRMach View Post
Ok, I have a 2003 which I though was built in July of 2003 but I have the 8-9 turn heads on my car. This I know because I just changed my plugs. Any thoughts on this?
Yes.
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Old 11-12-2008, 09:45 PM   #77
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Re: Head differences

As do you, but what about the heads?
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:32 PM   #78
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Re: Head differences

i was board so i pulled a plug. my car was built on 10-10-03 its # 710 of 7182 it also has 9 thread heads
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Old 11-13-2008, 07:34 PM   #79
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Re: Head differences

What day in July of 03? Your heads have the blue stripe on them? Just changed plugs on mine and found out mine are 9 thread heads as well. My car was built on 7/23/03,no blue stripe on heads.

Rob

Last edited by CaptHowdy; 11-14-2008 at 09:27 PM.
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Old 11-22-2008, 11:29 PM   #80
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Re: Head differences

Mine was early July I don't remember the day. Cant believe I forgot my cars birthday. There is no blue strip on mine either. Let me ask this, is there a difference is the length of the thread on the spark plug between the 2 different heads? The only reason I ask is some people might twist in the wrong plug and cause damage right?
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Old 11-23-2008, 12:03 AM   #81
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Re: Head differences

So....

That was a lot of info..lol

Dan, what would be the reason for the ticking noise staying around with the same set of heads on 3 different engines? I helped a buddy swap an Aviator engine in his 1999 GT. He ran Crower 3's and made great power N/A. He then built it with 03/04 Cobra rods, Probe SRS Pistons, and cast crank....engine (cylinder head) still ticked.

He then tore the engine apart, rebuilt it, and had some work done to the heads, still retaining the stock guides....but installed +1 valves and had some minor port/chamber work done. The head still ticks to this day.

Every mod motor has piston slap? You are basically stating that every shortblock has this problem. I personally have had about 10 different mod motor set-ups and I have never heard one bit of "irregular" noise come from the engine. Several of thoe 10 engines were 4V's. And my current car is a 4V.

Thoughts/opinions?
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Old 11-27-2008, 12:55 PM   #82
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Re: Head differences

Wow. It has been a while since I checked out this post and was contesting the post about when 8-9 thread plugs had started being used. I also loved the explanation of stiochiometry. I still stand behind my posts. Pistons typically slap when cold not hot, aluminum is extremely conductive, even in an iron cobra motor as they also utilize alumimum heads (same as ours), oil thins out extensively when hot and could be a leading casue of the "dreaded tick" when these motors get hot due to excessive lifter bleed off. Valve guides that are excessivlely worn to the point of ticking typically cause a drop in cylinder pressure. Which I personally have not experienced due to the ticking in our engines, not to mention extremely worn valve guides will cause oil consumption, which isn't apparent either. This isn't to say someone else hasn't seen this but I have not. I want to state for the record that i am not calling anyone on here a liar or incompetent. I am merely stating facts through my 20+ years of experience. I have gobs of experience with mod motors, quad cam mod motors, diesel motors, ohv V-8's, motorcycle engines, marine engines, etc. I am ASE certified in 5 areas of automobile technology, have been through Fords transmission school, etc. My credentials are long and
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:28 PM   #83
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Re: Head differences

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So....

That was a lot of info..lol

Dan, what would be the reason for the ticking noise staying around with the same set of heads on 3 different engines? I helped a buddy swap an Aviator engine in his 1999 GT. He ran Crower 3's and made great power N/A. He then built it with 03/04 Cobra rods, Probe SRS Pistons, and cast crank....engine (cylinder head) still ticked.

He then tore the engine apart, rebuilt it, and had some work done to the heads, still retaining the stock guides....but installed +1 valves and had some minor port/chamber work done. The head still ticks to this day.

Every mod motor has piston slap? You are basically stating that every shortblock has this problem. I personally have had about 10 different mod motor set-ups and I have never heard one bit of "irregular" noise come from the engine. Several of thoe 10 engines were 4V's. And my current car is a 4V.

Thoughts/opinions?
Probably because the tick was in the head like Ford says. How many 4Vs with bronze guides and good valve jobs tick?
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Old 11-28-2008, 12:40 PM   #84
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Re: Head differences

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Probably because the tick was in the head like Ford says. How many 4Vs with bronze guides and good valve jobs tick?
None that I know of.....
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:22 AM   #85
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Re: Head differences

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Originally Posted by BluBlurr32V View Post


I borrowed this image from EPIKMACH, sorry I just needed a quick pic. Credit for the pic goes to him!
Hey, thats my Head LOL!!!

Anyway, i have never seen this thread & there is alot of good info in here. But as u can see, my head has the blue paint, & guess what, my engine ticks like no other I have ever heard before. I always noticed it since I bought the car with 30k miles on it. Im not sure if its getting worse, but when I added LT's & took off the cats, the noise got louder & u can hear it come out through the driver side tailpipe... It even got louder after I installed a tubular K member, I guess due to the fact that I dont have a huge chunk of metal blocking the side of the motor anymore which would dampen the noise....

Sometimes, I think its an exhaust leak, but it sounds more like a tick to me??? Its really starting to bug me to the point where I want to fix it, but its honestly not worth the huge expense it would be to rebuild the heads....
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:01 PM   #86
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Smile Re: Head differences

Ok i give up ? What is this head tick issue on early 03 mach 1 "s
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Old 01-24-2009, 05:05 PM   #87
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Smile Re: Head differences

Ok i give up ? What is this head tick issue on early 03 mach 1 "s
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Old 02-20-2009, 10:38 AM   #88
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Re: Head differences

Poor cooling on cylinders 7 & 8 cause valve guide wear,
and the "tick" is the valve.
Much different than piston slap.
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Old 02-21-2009, 05:02 PM   #89
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Re: Head differences

i have heard that it not so much guide ware as it is the guide getting hot & slipping down & some where hitting valve on one of the other boards there is a big wright up about it & this sounds more like it to me then piston slap
but what do i know ????
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Old 03-07-2009, 02:55 AM   #90
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Re: Head differences

so is the blue stripe on top of the heads or where just curious?
and what if my Mach was made early January or '03 and it does not have the blue stripe?
what should i do?
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Old 06-11-2009, 02:55 PM   #91
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Re: Head differences

I have read this entire thread, and have learned alot about these mod motors... I also have a ticking noise that resembles both an exhaust leak, a loud injectors, or valve problem! I dont know what it is, and it seems like a lot of people have different theories about with the issue is! My question, that has gone unanswered on this thread is WHAT IS THE EFFECT OF THIS TICKING? Has anyone had their engine damaged due to this ticking, or any gone wrong with out treating this ticking? I would think that if this is a valve issue, or a pistion-cylinder issue, that under hard driving conditions this would digress into a "Holy crap, I just blew my engine" situation! Has anyone in here with the ticking issue allowed it to go untreated and suffered the consequences, or "it keeps on ticking," but she still runs like a Top?! I just purchased this vehicle on Saturday, and noticed the noise, the car only has 13,000 miles on it, and want know if this will damage the car! Thanks!
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Old 06-11-2009, 03:12 PM   #92
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Re: Head differences

i love threads like this
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Old 10-16-2009, 09:17 PM   #93
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Re: Head differences

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Look not trying to sound like an Richard but here are the facts!!!!!!



This is wrong!!!! Just to state the obvious here when you removed your heads and had bronze guides installed the machine shop also did a valve job to insure that the valve sealed after the new guides, when they tore in to the heads the also milled the bottom ( also known as the deck surface) in order to make it smooth enough for a MLS gasket to reseal when you mill a head you are making more cylinder pressured because the combustion part of the head is closer to the piston thus means less square area in turn adds more pressure to the piston thus stabilizing the piston to one side or the other (it Dampens to noise). The noise is actually still there it is just that you cant hear it due to added pressure. On a cobra it gets real bad because of the cylinder pressure they have due to the supercharger that is why it is more prone when idle and not under high boost. there is already enormous pressure on top of the piston so the clearance on a forced induction would have to be enormous for you to hear when the car is pullied and under pressure. That is why you hear it loudly when at idle due to less pressure
This thread makes my head hurt. The tick was/is caused by excessive stem to guide clearance, end of story. The guides had too much clearence right from the start. This allowed the valves to hammer back and forth in the same plane as the followers. The guides would wear into a oval shape. This movement scrubs the valve on the seat and the valves soon lose the ability to seal. Low compression is the result.

Most all of the new replacement heads sold over the counter had the same problem. Ford specification was .002 max stem to guide cl. the brand new heads were .004-.005+
Also..Piston slap gets worse as the pressure goes up. When the thrust transfers from one side of the skirt to the opposite side of tdc that is where the rattle comes from. This gets really ugly with the big piston to wall clearence some builders seem to like. We tore down a 4V this week and had a suprise.
The owner stated the oil fumes were making him sick. This thing had a few thousand miles on the rebuild. The engine had .020 over pistons in a .030 over bore.

Some pistons have pin bores offset to help reduce the slap on cold starts. Many new engine designs have the cylinder bores offset in relation to the crank centerline.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:03 PM   #94
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Re: Head differences

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This thread makes my head hurt. The tick was/is caused by excessive stem to guide clearance, end of story. The guides had too much clearence right from the start. This allowed the valves to hammer back and forth in the same plane as the followers. The guides would wear into a oval shape. This movement scrubs the valve on the seat and the valves soon lose the ability to seal. Low compression is the result.

Most all of the new replacement heads sold over the counter had the same problem. Ford specification was .002 max stem to guide cl. the brand new heads were .004-.005+
Also..Piston slap gets worse as the pressure goes up. When the thrust transfers from one side of the skirt to the opposite side of tdc that is where the rattle comes from. This gets really ugly with the big piston to wall clearence some builders seem to like. We tore down a 4V this week and had a suprise.
The owner stated the oil fumes were making him sick. This thing had a few thousand miles on the rebuild. The engine had .020 over pistons in a .030 over bore.

Some pistons have pin bores offset to help reduce the slap on cold starts. Many new engine designs have the cylinder bores offset in relation to the crank centerline.
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Old 10-16-2009, 10:05 PM   #95
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Re: Head differences

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The owner stated the oil fumes were making him sick. This thing had a few thousand miles on the rebuild. The engine had .020 over pistons in a .030 over bore.
I have seen that a time or two. it kind of makes you wounder what they were doing when they put it together.
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Old 10-17-2009, 06:46 PM   #96
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Re: Head differences

Hey BP are you a mercury outboard fan.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:13 PM   #97
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Re: Head differences

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Here is the difference



02-03 mach 1 and cobra heads
this was the first run of the mach1 and cobra heads, after a million complaints about excessive noise in the valve train on the drivers side ford figured they had to do something so they revised the drivers head. When the car came on to the service drive the first thing the service writer does is run TSBs to find any open complaints and the drivers head had a TSB for noise so ford started replacing them well about 2-3 months in to this they found out that they were redoing some of the cars that had already been don’t so the change the head by having then painted with a blue strip. Now this has no reworking other than some different valve guides but in fords attempt to keep the technicians from double dipping they painted the service head blue so the service writer knows if the TSB had been done or not. This head was the first head and only has 4 spark plug threads


mid 03 to end of 03 cobra and mach 1 heads

This is the 4V head that has been painted with a blue strip to show this is what ford though would take care of the excessive noise from the valve train (little did ford know that the piston slap was the cause for this noise) way to go ford !!!
This head also possesses 4 sparkplug threads




11/15/2003- 4/2004
This was the first 9 thread head
this was the 2004 cobra and the mach 1 head for 2004 this head was completely different. This was the last revision head also known as the FR500 replacement head. This head was issued some time after 11/15/2004 I have confirmed this with every 2004 cobra and mach 1 I have ever touched (approximately 50-60 cobras and 20-30 mach1s ) this head has improved ports also the coolant passages have also been changed. The only way to tell what head you have is by the thread count in the head. 9 thread signifies you have the 2004 heads and 4 thread signifies you have the 2003 heads (while nonpainted 2003 heads notes early 2003 heads) Now there is an easy test to see what heads you have seeing as how all of the threads are at the bottom coming up you can perform a simple thread count test. Start from the tight position and count the number of turns it takes to remove the sparkplug 4-5 turns means you have 4 thread and 8-9 turns means you have the 9 thread heads. if you are buying heads keep this in mind or simply contact me to buy new heads 9 thread with the improved passages 1500 a set complete new
Interesting discussion. I have a question.

I just bought an 03. The sticker on the door says 6/03. So what heads should I have? The 4 thread ones, right?

But I count 8.5 turns when removing the spark plugs. So by your statement these are the newer heads? I have no blue stripe on my heads, just a yellow X, i think.

I'm not understanding the logic of your simple test. A spark plug for our cars has like 9 threads on it. How would it matter how many threads are in the heads? It still takes 9 full turns to fully seat a spark plug, whether there is 4 threads in the head, or 9 or 5 or 1....

Am i making sense or am i totally missing something?
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:04 PM   #98
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Re: Head differences

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Interesting discussion. I have a question.

I just bought an 03. The sticker on the door says 6/03. So what heads should I have? The 4 thread ones, right?

But I count 8.5 turns when removing the spark plugs. So by your statement these are the newer heads? I have no blue stripe on my heads, just a yellow X, i think.

I'm not understanding the logic of your simple test. A spark plug for our cars has like 9 threads on it. How would it matter how many threads are in the heads? It still takes 9 full turns to fully seat a spark plug, whether there is 4 threads in the head, or 9 or 5 or 1....

Am i making sense or am i totally missing something?
It doesnt matter if the head has 1 thread or 400 threads, the number of turns to remove the plug is determined by the spark plug thread count

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Old 10-25-2009, 05:22 PM   #99
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Re: Head differences

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It doesnt matter if the head has 1 thread or 400 threads, the number of turns to remove the plug is determined by the spark plug thread count

Tony
Tony, I think we may be the only 2 here that understand that. At least I didn't see anyone else bring this up. So why is this a sticky anyways? I don't see how this is anything but confusing.

I have 92k on my engine, no ticking or odd noises whatsever. No blue stripe.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:00 PM   #100
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Re: Head differences

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Tony, I think we may be the only 2 here that understand that. At least I didn't see anyone else bring this up. So why is this a sticky anyways? I don't see how this is anything but confusing.

I have 92k on my engine, no ticking or odd noises whatsever. No blue stripe.
True, but a spark plug or any bolt needs at least 1 1/2 its own diameter to have strength from which its bolted in.
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