Eaton Swap.....

[azureblue_04]

Originally Posted by 01yellerCobra

Not apples to apples, but for reference....

1) I have a 2.93 upper on my 04 with the stock power. I've seen 12psi according to my Aeroforce gauge. That's with stock manifolds, Bassani catted X, and Stingers. Also my compression is only 8.5:1. Your higher compression might affect it as well.

2) I tuned my 04 myself. It's not really that hard. I've tuned a couple other cars as well.

I don't want to put more than 10psi through the stock shortblock.

I'm hoping the tune won't be to hard to figure out. I'm using factory Cobra injectors & MAF, the only aftermarket parts are a CAI and cattless H pipe. I have the Lasota book and will be getting a base tune from Lasota. I'm still a few weeks out from the tune.

[MachRyan]

Opinions on whether you kind folks think it'd still be worth it to swap an Eaton into a low-mileage Mach 1?

I know parts and install cost plays a factor but seeing as how the regular '18 GT now makes 460 hp at the crank and the Hellcat, ZR1, ZL1, Demon and new GT500 all make 600-800hp, is achieving ~500 at the crank in an 03-04 Mach 1 still worth the price of admission?

Just looking for a friendly discussion and opinion. I have a low-mileage Mach and am wondering whether an Eaton swap on an otherwise stock bottom end producing 450rwhp is even relevant or worth it anymore, especially when comparing it to the cars noted above.

Thanks in advance.

[311-420]

Originally Posted by MachRyan

Opinions on whether you kind folks think it'd still be worth it to swap an Eaton into a low-mileage Mach 1?

I know parts and install cost plays a factor but seeing as how the regular '18 GT now makes 460 hp at the crank and the Hellcat, ZR1, ZL1, Demon and new GT500 all make 600-800hp, is achieving ~500 at the crank in an 03-04 Mach 1 still worth the price of admission?

Just looking for a friendly discussion and opinion. I have a low-mileage Mach and am wondering whether an Eaton swap on an otherwise stock bottom end producing 450rwhp is even relevant or worth it anymore, especially when comparing it to the cars noted above.

Thanks in advance.

I've pulled on a hellcat charger after he tried to surprise ricer fly by me on a two lane country road (no idea on mods if any, it was my buddy's neighbors car and when they talked later the owner of the hellcat said my car was "F'n quick"), an 11-12 GT500 by a couple cars real fast but had to get out of it before it got good (no idea on mods if any) and two different coyote cars by many lengths that were full bolt on (boss manifold, longtubes etc). I've got other significant kills as well but those are the ones that relate to your list.

[MachRyan]

Originally Posted by 311-420

I've pulled on a hellcat charger after he tried to surprise ricer fly by me on a two lane country road (no idea on mods if any, it was my buddy's neighbors car and when they talked later the owner of the hellcat said my car was "F'n quick"), an 11-12 GT500 by a couple cars real fast but had to get out of it before it got good (no idea on mods if any) and two different coyote cars by many lengths that were full bolt on (boss manifold, longtubes etc). I've got other significant kills as well but those are the ones that relate to your list.

Wow. That's super impressive. Are you running an Eaton or are are you upgraded to a KB or Whipple? What kind of power are you putting to the ground? Anyone else care to chime in?

This intrigues me. I figured that the limit of what an Eaton swapped stock block Mach 1 can do would only barely tread water when compared to the powerful cars of today. I guess our cars being significantly lighter than some of those cars listed helps?

[TTSaleen]

Originally Posted by MachRyan

Opinions on whether you kind folks think it'd still be worth it to swap an Eaton into a low-mileage Mach 1?

I know parts and install cost plays a factor but seeing as how the regular '18 GT now makes 460 hp at the crank and the Hellcat, ZR1, ZL1, Demon and new GT500 all make 600-800hp, is achieving ~500 at the crank in an 03-04 Mach 1 still worth the price of admission?

Just looking for a friendly discussion and opinion. I have a low-mileage Mach and am wondering whether an Eaton swap on an otherwise stock bottom end producing 450rwhp is even relevant or worth it anymore, especially when comparing it to the cars noted above.

Thanks in advance.

I've done it both ways.
First way -
Eaton swapped my 40k mile 2003 Red Mach 1. Make over 470rwhp thru an automatic.
With 4.10 rear gears, it was super fun to drive and would put bus-lengths on most "fast" cars from stoplight to stoplight.
Cost came in under $5,500 for everything including Eaton parts, heat exchanger, return fuel system upgrade, full exhaust system, etc.

Second way -
I did a complete Terminator Cobra drivetrain swap on my 2003 Azure Blue Mach 1. Pulled the tired and knocking original Mach engine and dropped in a 50K mile Cobra engine, T56 transmission, IRS rear, and eventually put a Kennebell 2.6 supercharger and E85 return fuel system on it. It makes 700rwhp today.
Cost came in around $10k for everything.

Good luck.
It's worth it.

Ryan

[311-420]

Originally Posted by MachRyan

Wow. That's super impressive. Are you running an Eaton or are are you upgraded to a KB or Whipple? What kind of power are you putting to the ground? Anyone else care to chime in?

This intrigues me. I figured that the limit of what an Eaton swapped stock block Mach 1 can do would only barely tread water when compared to the powerful cars of today. I guess our cars being significantly lighter than some of those cars listed helps?

Stock Eaton, stock pulleys, longtubes, magnaflow cb, built 3.73 rear, nitto dr etc

452hp/409tq

[MachRyan]

I very much appreciate you guys for responding - Thanks. I wouldn't have thought that an Eaton swapped Mach would be able to stay with the cars you mentioned nor achieve what you've appeared to have achieved with that setup. I appreciate the insightful responses and always love seeing pics of a Mach 1

I have also been told that the Eaton is both the best way to go as well as the worst way to go for supercharging. Two different shops in my area had very different opinions. One shop swore by going with a Vortech or Procharger and another says an Eaton is what I want as long as I'm not looking to produce huge numbers. Both shops are well respected and I have no doubt both do good work so I will not discredit either shop - it's just interesting to hear peoples opinions on the matter.

[fastlane]

My 498whp Eaton swapped Mach1 engine(in a GT) with 3.73 gears was enough to beat up on my buddy's 2012 GT with a 2.3TVS and another buddy's 2.2 KB 2004 Cobra. The newer cars are nicer, ride smoother, have more creature comforts but it comes at a price. They are quite a bit bigger and a lot heavier.

Since Eaton swapping mine, I went full tilt and now have a Whipple 3.4 on my built/forged 4V with a built 4r75w auto behind it. It makes 800+ to the tire and surprises a lot of "fast cars". To top it off, I love the look of the new edge Mustangs so I am sticking with mine for a long time.

[03Shadow Grey]

Originally Posted by fastlane

My 498whp Eaton swapped Mach1 engine(in a GT) with 3.73 gears was enough to beat up on my buddy's 2012 GT with a 2.3TVS and another buddy's 2.2 KB 2004 Cobra. The newer cars are nicer, ride smoother, have more creature comforts but it comes at a price. They are quite a bit bigger and a lot heavier.

Since Eaton swapping mine, I went full tilt and now have a Whipple 3.4 on my built/forged 4V with a built 4r75w auto behind it. It makes 800+ to the tire and surprises a lot of "fast cars". To top it off, I love the look of the new edge Mustangs so I am sticking with mine for a long time.

If I remember right the Azure was supposed to be just a daily after the TR . lol

[AlloyPony]

Originally Posted by MachRyan

I very much appreciate you guys for responding - Thanks. I wouldn't have thought that an Eaton swapped Mach would be able to stay with the cars you mentioned nor achieve what you've appeared to have achieved with that setup. I appreciate the insightful responses and always love seeing pics of a Mach 1

I have also been told that the Eaton is both the best way to go as well as the worst way to go for supercharging. Two different shops in my area had very different opinions. One shop swore by going with a Vortech or Procharger and another says an Eaton is what I want as long as I'm not looking to produce huge numbers. Both shops are well respected and I have no doubt both do good work so I will not discredit either shop - it's just interesting to hear peoples opinions on the matter.

The roots blower (Eaton, whipple, etc.) sounds like heaven. I could listen to that whine all day long. However, the power hits really hard and if you push too much boost it can be harsh on the bottom end.

I'll say this...my father's last car was a Terminator with a VMP swap and supporting mods that was putting down 700+ on our local dyno, and I saw a Procharged Mach 1 pass it like it was tied to a tree one night. I wouldn't have believe it if I hadn't seen it myself.

With the Mach factory compression ratio and a well tuned centrifugal kit, you can pretty much wipe the floor with Hellkittens, ZL1s, whatever you want.

[MachRyan]

Originally Posted by AlloyPony

The roots blower (Eaton, whipple, etc.) sounds like heaven. I could listen to that whine all day long. However, the power hits really hard and if you push too much boost it can be harsh on the bottom end.

I'll say this...my father's last car was a Terminator with a VMP swap and supporting mods that was putting down 700+ on our local dyno, and I saw a Procharged Mach 1 pass it like it was tied to a tree one night. I wouldn't have believe it if I hadn't seen it myself.

With the Mach factory compression ratio and a well tuned centrifugal kit, you can pretty much wipe the floor with Hellkittens, ZL1s, whatever you want.

When deciding what setup I wanted I had a hard time deciding between a centrifugal and a roots/twin-screw. What ultimately made me choose an Eaton was that my car is a weekend/nice day car that will more than likely never see a race track. The power of the Eaton being more linear is a plus for how I'll be driving it.

So, Eaton it is. Now, I'm just hoping I can get to that conservative ~450rwhp mark.

[MachRyan]

The Eaton that I'll be running is from a Cobra that had it ported/polished - with a stock bottom end in my Mach, what benefit if any will I be able to see in having this? Also, I'd like to know if most of you are running the stock sized upper/lower pulley's or what you've done with your setups.

Thanks in advance.

[311-420]

Originally Posted by MachRyan

The Eaton that I'll be running is from a Cobra that had it ported/polished - with a stock bottom end in my Mach, what benefit if any will I be able to see in having this? Also, I'd like to know if most of you are running the stock sized upper/lower pulley's or what you've done with your setups.

Thanks in advance.

The port mostly opens up the outlet (the side that blows through the intercooler). This opens up more surface area of the intercooler to the boost charge which reduces boost temps. Obviously a good thing especially if youre spinning the blower hard. With stock pulleys, which you shouldnt go past on the stock bottom end unless you really like to roll the dice, the port will not increase boost or make any more power than being unported. Porting the blower doesnt add boost if thats what youre asking.

[MachRyan]

Originally Posted by 311-420

The port mostly opens up the outlet (the side that blows through the intercooler). This opens up more surface area of the intercooler to the boost charge which reduces boost temps. Obviously a good thing especially if youre spinning the blower hard. With stock pulleys, which you shouldnt go past on the stock bottom end unless you really like to roll the dice, the port will not increase boost or make any more power than being unported. Porting the blower doesnt add boost if thats what youre asking.

Yep. That’s what I was looking for. Thanks again 311-420!

[Raptor05121]

Bump from the dead. Just read most of this thread and I'm frothing at the mouth for 450rwhp.

I just picked up an 04 Oxford White 5-speed, 70k miles. Really wanting to do this swap. Being its almost 15 years since these cars came out, would it be ill-advised to begin this trek? Are some parts completely 100% impossible to find?

[311-420]

Originally Posted by Raptor05121

Bump from the dead. Just read most of this thread and I'm frothing at the mouth for 450rwhp.

I just picked up an 04 Oxford White 5-speed, 70k miles. Really wanting to do this swap. Being its almost 15 years since these cars came out, would it be ill-advised to begin this trek? Are some parts completely 100% impossible to find?

This late in the game, if I had a stock car with 70k miles I'd put a magnapack catback on it, steeda or mgw shifter, tint the windows and roll.


If the car has already been modded and you just want to go further, keep in mind not only the initial costs and aggravations of what you're doing, the cost of supporting mods that need to be done to take good advantage of the new power, and the inevitable costs that will come as a result of the added power. For example- my transmission is making some pretty cool noises these days and will need attention. Probably sooner rather than later.

You will find yourself on a never ending path of modding, maintaining, repairing etc. If these things sit ok with you, then by all means the eaton swap can be done and will be stupid fun. The parts are becoming more difficult to find and the install is much more involved than a centri setup. An eaton swapped Mach 1 will also be much more difficult to return to stock if you ever sold the car and needed to get more of your money back, unlike with a centri that can be taken off in just hours.

How good you are at working on cars will be something to consider as well. What happens if you get in over your head? Are there shops near you that you can trust to save the day? Expect things to happen. They will.

I would not advise going into something as serious as supercharging with a tight budget and without other means of reliable transportation.

[TTSaleen]

Originally Posted by Raptor05121

Bump from the dead. Just read most of this thread and I'm frothing at the mouth for 450rwhp.

I just picked up an 04 Oxford White 5-speed, 70k miles. Really wanting to do this swap. Being its almost 15 years since these cars came out, would it be ill-advised to begin this trek? Are some parts completely 100% impossible to find?

Congrats on the purchase! Yes the Eaton swap is still a good choice. But with engine swaps going for just a little more, you might consider finding a take-out 03/04 cobra drivetrain that gives you the forged engine and T56 transmission. I did that on my latest Mach1 and it is by far better money spent.
Of course as mentioned by user 311-420, your total expense and money dropped into the car is going to go up, but if making the car your-own is important and you plan to keep it, then go for it.
That's just what I did! Haha!
I can say I probably have the most expensive Mach1 with 114k miles on it. LOL.
Ryan

[fastlane]

Some parts are very hard to come by like the intercooler mounting brackets, oil cooler, and good caged lower pulleys but they can be found. If not, there are alternatives to use.

Like others have said, if you are comfortable with working on the car and are willing to take the time to find and install the right supporting/mods, go for it. The added power is like a drug and can lead to the never ending desire for more. Be aware, adding more power is a quick way to find the weakest component in the drivetrain or driver seat.

[hendrixinthe70s]

I did my eaton swap while ago, i used a stock size pulley and im pushing 426 rwhp and 396 ftlb tq. Everyone seems to be getting better numbers and im wondering if the guy that tuned it did a bad job because after the tune it was running lean so i installed a new h/o fuel pump and he tuned it with the iac valve disconnected. Am missing something? I have stock headers with a catback exhaust and just a drop in air filter. Maybe thats why?

[311-420]

Dyno numbers are really only good for letting the tuner know whether or not the changes he's making are working or not. Having said that, your numbers sound right on to me considering the stock exhaust and (I'm assuming) a 91 octane tune.

Not sure why he wouldn't want to tune with the iac hooked up. Is it hooked up now? Did you switch to the cobra iac when you 'swapped?

[hendrixinthe70s]

Im not sure why he did that either, after hooking up the iac the pinging lessened quite a bit too so idk. and yes im running 91. My next mods are going to be headers and a cold air intake throttle body and another tune. Does anyone know of someone out here in southern california that is good?

[311-420]

Aftermarket intakes are a waste of money for your setup and 99% of all Machs and Cobras. A throttle body is a waste too for your car. There's just no restriction there with the stock blower and pulleys. I'd focus on fuel first. Try adding torco accelerator and see if the pinging stops. If it does, you've either been getting bunk fuel or the tune was written too aggressively.

[hendrixinthe70s]

Well thats good to know! Ill try the additive and see what happens with that.

[311-420]

You said you finished your 'swap "a while ago". How many tanks of fuel is that? The odds of repeatedly getting bad fuel aren't high unless you're buying from shady, old discount pumps somewhere. The torco will almost certainly end the pinging (provided you're sure that's what you're hearing) but you probably won't want the added hassle and expense of running that forever.

As hard as it can be to imagine that a tuner would turn a car out that pings, they can. It happened to me when my car was just mild bolt-ons. He was blaming it on fuel, but after trying fuel from the stations he recommended and the car still pinged on tip-in throttle, I knew it was his tune.

I've also bought bunk fuel two tanks in a row before. So that's possible too. And it was from different stations both times. Big, new, highly frequented stations. So even those can sell bunk from time to time. But I wouldn't say it's likely to happen over and over again unless the station's fuel holding tanks are marked and filled incorrectly. I've never heard of that, but I'm sure at some point in time it's happened. You may want to try different stations as well to eliminate that rare possibility.

[hendrixinthe70s]

No its not that, Its been like 10 tanks but it was allot worse with the iac. I noticed that almost right away. The guy seemed like my car was a hassle for him to tune and didnt do it right.