sutyak's turbo 2004 Mach 1 build thread

[Explosive]

wish i could go back and not even mess with the nitrous and had just put that money aside towards boost...

Looks sweet

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by Explosive

wish i could go back and not even mess with the nitrous and had just put that money aside towards boost...

Looks sweet

It's never too late for boost.

I also picked up a set of 3.90 gears. Now I just need to decide 3.90 or 4.10. I will likely go 3.90.

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by sutyak

It's never too late for boost.

I also picked up a set of 3.90 gears. Now I just need to decide 3.90 or 4.10. I will likely go 3.90.

I try 3.90s first
Thinking for myself I need 3.55s or 3.73s

ASh

[sutyak]

I'm finally in the process of rebuilding the spare TR3650 to hold the power the car makes. Details here: TR3650 Rebuild

[not a gt]

Beautiful, just beautiful

[ASH302]

I applaud you for taking on the trans, I saw some of the other thread, good luck with it. look forward to seeing more work done

ASh

[GhostRiderblk]

Originally Posted by sutyak

I'm finally in the process of rebuilding the spare TR3650 to hold the power the car makes. Details here: TR3650 Rebuild

I have rebuilt that 3650 way to many times. It was out more then in at 800rwhp. Even the tko600 was just way to notched at high rpms. You will convert to auto soon enough and go with lower gear combo.

[GhostRiderblk]

Originally Posted by sutyak

Steep is relative. They would only be too steep if I run out of RPM before the end of the 1/4 me. For the street this low compression and big turbo needs some help down low, so it should make it much more fun.

Some insight. Don't base everything off rpms with turbos. That is not how you get them to spool faster in fact it's almost oposite with a higher gear ratio. Spool time is based off exhaust volume, heat, timing, and of course the turbo you pick housings and air rations and such. Most the time it's the air ratio on the housing. You can try different housing and measure back pressure to see if there are any negative effects while obtaining quicker spool times. As far as 4.10s for the street good luck hooking. At 650hp and 315 m/ts full suspension it was a challenge. Assfault sucks.

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by GhostRiderblk

Some insight. Don't base everything off rpms with turbos. That is not how you get them to spool faster in fact it's almost opposite with a higher gear ratio. Spool time is based off exhaust volume, heat, timing, and of course the turbo you pick housings and air rations and such. Most the time it's the air ratio on the housing. You can try different housing and measure back pressure to see if there are any negative effects while obtaining quicker spool times. As far as 4.10s for the street good luck hooking. At 650hp and 315 m/ts full suspension it was a challenge. Asphalt sucks.

I've already decided not to use the 4.10's, but I may still go with the 3.90's. I have to get it to the track first to get some trap speeds and play with shift points before making any gear decisions.
As for the turbine housing, I understand what you are trying to say, but RPM is most certainly a factor. There are many ways to look at this. (And it's Area/Radius, not Air/Ratio)

1) Big turbine housing, higher A/R. More potential flow for peak HP, but the tradeoff is the car must be revved higher. To get into that powerband faster one option is a lower gear.
2) Smaller turbine housing, lower A/R. Lower potential flow for peak HP, increased backpressure, lower powerband, but could also keep current gears if desired.
3) Smaller compressor wheel. Lower potential HP, moves the powerband down. Boost builds faster.

Of course this is oversimplified. An overly large compressor side cannot be overcome by an overly smaller turbine side. The only option there is more RPM, or a smaller compressor side. I certainly don't want to spin my 4.6L like a Supra if I don't need to.

Garrett has a wealth of information on their site regarding compressor and turbine A/R.

The problem I face with this car is that the kid who put it together had no specific goal in mind other than to put a big turbo on it. Now it's up to me to balance the system to how I want it, and I won't know myself exactly how I want it until after I get more seat and track time.

[sutyak]

More progress on the TR3650 rebuild. I decided to go with the 1000hp gear kit, purchased from Pro-Force Performance. G-Force makes the kit. These gears are amazing. I can't imagine I'll ever need to open this transmission again except to possibly replace synchronizer blocker rings.

OEM gear left, new on right:


Larger 26 spline input shaft.

[GhostRiderblk]

Originally Posted by sutyak

I've already decided not to use the 4.10's, but I may still go with the 3.90's. I have to get it to the track first to get some trap speeds and play with shift points before making any gear decisions.
As for the turbine housing, I understand what you are trying to say, but RPM is most certainly a factor. There are many ways to look at this. (And it's Area/Radius, not Air/Ratio)

1) Big turbine housing, higher A/R. More potential flow for peak HP, but the tradeoff is the car must be revved higher. To get into that powerband faster one option is a lower gear.
2) Smaller turbine housing, lower A/R. Lower potential flow for peak HP, increased backpressure, lower powerband, but could also keep current gears if desired.
3) Smaller compressor wheel. Lower potential HP, moves the powerband down. Boost builds faster.

Of course this is oversimplified. An overly large compressor side cannot be overcome by an overly smaller turbine side. The only option there is more RPM, or a smaller compressor side. I certainly don't want to spin my 4.6L like a Supra if I don't need to.

Garrett has a wealth of information on their site regarding compressor and turbine A/R.

The problem I face with this car is that the kid who put it together had no specific goal in mind other than to put a big turbo on it. Now it's up to me to balance the system to how I want it, and I won't know myself exactly how I want it until after I get more seat and track time.

Sorry air radius* I refer to things wrong a lot lol. Just my natural dimise but you get what I mean. Have you tried messing with tune at all? Retarding timing and adjusting a/f mixture rich right before it makes boost? Could help out after gears. I run 3.55s behind a th400. It's a great street strip combo but then again I am running a 88mm in 95mm ext. With a 1.3x housing t6 flange. I load the cap out of it and it hits hard!

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by GhostRiderblk

Sorry air radius* I refer to things wrong a lot lol. Just my natural dimise but you get what I mean. Have you tried messing with tune at all? Retarding timing and adjusting a/f mixture rich right before it makes boost? Could help out after gears. I run 3.55s behind a th400. It's a great street strip combo but then again I am running a 88mm in 95mm ext. With a 1.3x housing t6 flange. I load the cap out of it and it hits hard!

I've driven this car maybe 5 miles, not counting driving it back home from where I bought it. It's been put away for the winter while I buy parts to make it a "complete" build. It has a stock TR3650, which I'm amazed has lasted this long. It has absolutely zero track safety items. I'll be adding a 6-point roll bar and driveshaft loop; just enough to get me to 134mph or 10.0. Since this is a toy and not a competition car I'm not going full 10-point cage. I'm still working with Rev Auto to try and get the tune file from them. I have the SCT Pro Racer Package, so I can make adjustments after I get that master tune file. I still have a tremendous amount of things to do with the car before I get into fine-tuning it.
The more I think about it, the more I'm leaning towards a slightly smaller turbo that matches my goals closer. The PTE7675 is for someone wanting to run 150mph, not 134mph.

[not a gt]

What a beefy gear, that looks like it will more than handle your goals, great build man, especially tranny info..that is one part of the car I always thought was beyond my skill level, hat off to ya man

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by not a gt

What a beefy gear, that looks like it will more than handle your goals, great build man, especially tranny info..that is one part of the car I always thought was beyond my skill level, hat off to ya man

Thanks! I try not to look at anything as beyond my skill level, but rather beyond my tool level.. then I go out and buy the tools.

[sutyak]

McLeod RXT clutch is ordered and should be here in a couple of weeks.
I went ahead and bought a new friction disc for a Fidanza flywheel I have. For $51 it's a lot cheaper than buying a whole new flywheel.
It will sure be nice to see all of these parts ON the car.

[TKat13]

Nice update; fwiw, I have 3:08s in my rear behind a TH400, hooking is still a challenge. But when it hooks, it pulls hard forever, gives the pucker effect.

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by TKat13

Nice update; fwiw, I have 3:08s in my rear behind a TH400, hooking is still a challenge. But when it hooks, it pulls hard forever, gives the pucker effect.

Looks like we have the same turbo, but a lot of other things are slightly different. I scanned through your build but missed what cams you have? CR pistons? 750whp at 14psi? That's fantastic! Did you find that dyno graph? This car supposedly made 667whp but it took 17psi. Clearly I need to go over this combo very carefully to see where there power has been left on the table. For all I know there might be a major boost leak. Oh the joys of buying someone else's project.

[GhostRiderblk]

Originally Posted by TKat13

Nice update; fwiw, I have 3:08s in my rear behind a TH400, hooking is still a challenge. But when it hooks, it pulls hard forever, gives the pucker effect.

This guy gets it. Th400 plus turbo equals glory lol. Love the load autos provide vs manual on turbo car. Are you running 1/4? What's your trap

[sutyak]

Trying to get a few minutes here and there to put towards the car. I'm still waiting on some trans parts to arrive, and I'm on travel soon for work, so it will still be a while before I get that together.

No problems at all replacing the friction disc in the Fidanza flywheel:




A previous owner had nitrous in the car and a custom switch panel in the dash. I plan on using one of those switches for turning off the fuel pumps manually so they don't continually pump fuel while the accessories are on but the car is off (return fuel system).
It has what looks like an MGW shifter. I may look into a slightly longer shifter handle because this one is crazy short.


Some other things I need to tackle are cleaning this poor car! Every inch of the interior needs thoroughly cleaned. The cig power port doesn't work. I need to trace that and figure out why. There are probably 5 lbs of wires run in the car that go nowhere from a sound system and nitrous.

[TKat13]

Originally Posted by sutyak

Looks like we have the same turbo, but a lot of other things are slightly different. I scanned through your build but missed what cams you have? CR pistons? 750whp at 14psi? That's fantastic! Did you find that dyno graph? This car supposedly made 667whp but it took 17psi. Clearly I need to go over this combo very carefully to see where there power has been left on the table. For all I know there might be a major boost leak. Oh the joys of buying someone else's project.

Cams are custom ground specific for a turbo application. HPP spec'd the cams; heads are fully ported and CR is 11:1. This was on E85. Yes, I have the dyno sheet, but it is not with me.

Originally Posted by GhostRiderblk

This guy gets it. Th400 plus turbo equals glory lol. Love the load autos provide vs manual on turbo car. Are you running 1/4? What's your trap

I have yet to run it on the track; life simply got in the way and I am off working at another start-up, these things consumes all of your free time, but it is fun. Hope to be back with the Mach in about 6 months or so. The track near is me is 1/8 mile, but to be completely honest, I have obviously 'tested' the car on the streets of Mexico and **** thing woke me up to the point that I need a cage. Car is just to wicked to run like that without a cage. I really believe a 1000hp is in the cards but will need injectors and another tune. Injectors are just stupid expensive after 80lbs.

[DSG2003Mach1]

yes thats an MGW handle, the orange one is the short/race handle I believe. I think they have a blue handle thats longer.

the cig lighter is probably related to one of your 4 blown fuses.

I pulled a **** ton of wire out of the blue mach I had for a bit that was a former nitrous car as well.

[sutyak]

Originally Posted by TKat13

Cams are custom ground specific for a turbo application. HPP spec'd the cams; heads are fully ported and CR is 11:1. This was on E85. Yes, I have the dyno sheet, but it is not with me.

Thanks. Yeah the difference between 8.5:1 and 11:1 is pretty significant. I would have preferred 10:1 and run meth injection since there are no E85 pumps around here. I'm certainly not going to pull the motor anytime soon to swap out pistons, though.

Originally Posted by DSG2003Mach1

yes thats an MGW handle, the orange one is the short/race handle I believe. I think they have a blue handle thats longer.

Thanks, I'll look into that! Unfortunately the blown fuses were not the issue for the cig lighter. I'll trace it down. I haven't really tried to diagnose it yet.

[TKat13]

Originally Posted by sutyak

Thanks. Yeah the difference between 8.5:1 and 11:1 is pretty significant. I would have preferred 10:1 and run meth injection since there are no E85 pumps around here. I'm certainly not going to pull the motor anytime soon to swap out pistons, though. .

Yea, I said the same thing when I was 9:1; but I dropped a valve and new pistons were needed anyway, so I went all out. Drivability greatly improved as well.

[ASH302]

I like the switch panel. I'm sure you have checked the fuse for the cig lighter

ASh

[sutyak]

I've been away on travel for work, but I did pick up a couple of parts recently. I also plan on getting back to my transmission this week.
Rev Auto also sent me the master tune file for the car, so I can freely make changes to the tune with the Pro Racer Package software. A big thanks to them since not all tuners will release that master file since every tuner has their "special" tweaks they don't want getting out. I'll still need to buy a license from SCT. Also on the to-do list this week.

New shift knob to get replace the funky old one that is coming apart:




A set of Manley adjustable cam gears. I have no near-term plan to install the 2001 Cobra cams I have, but I couldn't pass up the deal I got for these.