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Old 07-06-2004, 06:51 PM   #26
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Curious how the borla catback would compare?

Thats what I'm lookin to get. Not sure what to do with the midpipe situation yet. Anyone here know any good midpipes to use with the borla? Does it matter or change the sound alot? Thanks
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Old 07-06-2004, 09:39 PM   #27
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tach9
Sorry, did not mean to come across so harsh......I'll have to say those MFG's are retarded for not participating.
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Old 07-06-2004, 10:06 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by frank5o
tach9
Sorry, did not mean to come across so harsh......I'll have to say those MFG's are retarded for not participating.
Frank, no worries...I too wish we could have gotten more MFG's to participate, but well Borla and Flowmaster etc...didn't feel that they needed an independent review, nor could they see the value apparently But the MFG's that did participate...I take my hat off to them!!! They understand the value and they respect what is happening online in all the car forums, enthusiasts are getting smarter and are not buying into their marketing hype. Magazine reviews are skewed, the Mach 1 Review is independent and unbiased....thus we just report the facts...Oh we may ad our "Subjective" comments, but they are always listed in the "Subjective Comment" title so that there will be no mistaking them for anything but their intended notes.

Looks like we'll be doing a full Predator Review and a X and H Pipe review next ....

Last edited by tach9; 07-07-2004 at 10:05 AM.
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:04 AM   #29
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Quote:
Looks like we'll be doing a full Predator Review and a X and H Pipe review next ....
That sounds great! I'd love to hear some sold facts about the predator, I have been kind of skeptical about that thing.
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Old 07-07-2004, 10:07 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by frank5o
That sounds great! I'd love to hear some sold facts about the predator, I have been kind of skeptical about that thing.
M1R has already done some preliminary testing, and so far we have found the Predator is everything that the MFG says it is...it is easy to use, gives you control over some important functions and corrects some basic performance limitations. More to come in an official review soon...
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Old 07-08-2004, 04:15 PM   #31
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Why do you lose?

If you improved the intake, and the exhaust, how could you possibly lose HP or TQ?
I would think you would stand to gain in both areas?
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(K&N CAI, Bassani Headers, Bassani SS Catted X-Pipe, Borla Stinger Catbacks, PHP Intake Spacer, SCT Tune, BFGoodrichGForce/KDWS)

>Dyno Stock Baseline 06/11/04 2,600 mi.
254RWHP/271RWTQ,(SAE)A/F = 13
>Dyno 08/23/05 w/CAI, Catbacks,Diablo 15,000 mi.
264RWHP/290RWTQ,(SAE) A/F = 13
>Dyno 08/31/07 w/Bassanis & PHP 34,000 mi.
283RWHP/304RWTQ,(SAE) A/F = 13
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Old 07-08-2004, 05:02 PM   #32
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Re: Why do you lose?

Quote:
Originally posted by lstpierr
If you improved the intake, and the exhaust, how could you possibly lose HP or TQ?
I would think you would stand to gain in both areas?
The Mach motor as programmed from the factory MCU is rich (safe)...adding a CAI tends to lean it out..thus you gain a bit of HP/T...but by adding further a CAT Back..it leans it out further..so depending on how rich your system was in the first place..the lean condition created by adding the CAT Back may put you in a power loss situation until you can restore a better A/F ratio....YMMV..
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Old 07-08-2004, 05:22 PM   #33
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So does the computer adjust?

So having changed this, wouldn't the computer adjust accordingly over time?

Do you have to tune, or get a chip to compensate?
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2004 DSG Mach1 Auto / IUP, Born On Date 11/26//03
Purchase Date 05/17/04
Totaled Date 09/14/13

(K&N CAI, Bassani Headers, Bassani SS Catted X-Pipe, Borla Stinger Catbacks, PHP Intake Spacer, SCT Tune, BFGoodrichGForce/KDWS)

>Dyno Stock Baseline 06/11/04 2,600 mi.
254RWHP/271RWTQ,(SAE)A/F = 13
>Dyno 08/23/05 w/CAI, Catbacks,Diablo 15,000 mi.
264RWHP/290RWTQ,(SAE) A/F = 13
>Dyno 08/31/07 w/Bassanis & PHP 34,000 mi.
283RWHP/304RWTQ,(SAE) A/F = 13
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Old 07-08-2004, 07:20 PM   #34
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Re: So does the computer adjust?

Quote:
Originally posted by lstpierr
So having changed this, wouldn't the computer adjust accordingly over time?

Do you have to tune, or get a chip to compensate?
While the stock MCU is prety good about "learning" it has it's limitations. Tuning is the best way to get a better A/F ratio..and thus increasing performance. Chip or Predator....For most I think the Predator is the easiest and the least expensive route. Those that want the "Best" should look at custom chip flashing...YMMV
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:05 PM   #35
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Definately an interesting and much appreciated review. Right now my mach 1 is stock except for 2 1/2 inch Vortech mufflers welded in w/3 inch chrome tips. The Vortech's are less expensive, and supposedly flow better than and sound the same as flowmasters. Everybody that has heard them so far says they do. My car is somewhat quiet, but has a mean exhaust note. I'm considering right now leaving the mufflers and rear end exhaust plumbing stock, and hooking it up to shorty headers mated up to an MRT catted H-pipe. Then I would add electronic exhaust cut=outs directly after the cats. That way I could be somewhat quiet when I wanted, keep the backpressure, and then go absurdly loud when I wanted to also. Anybody have any feedback on this particular setup I'm thinking about??/

-Thanks
-Dan
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Old 07-08-2004, 10:11 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by the stallion
Definately an interesting and much appreciated review. Right now my mach 1 is stock except for 2 1/2 inch Vortech mufflers welded in w/3 inch chrome tips. The Vortech's are less expensive, and supposedly flow better than and sound the same as flowmasters. Everybody that has heard them so far says they do. My car is somewhat quiet, but has a mean exhaust note. I'm considering right now leaving the mufflers and rear end exhaust plumbing stock, and hooking it up to shorty headers mated up to an MRT catted H-pipe. Then I would add electronic exhaust cut=outs directly after the cats. That way I could be somewhat quiet when I wanted, keep the backpressure, and then go absurdly loud when I wanted to also. Anybody have any feedback on this particular setup I'm thinking about??/

-Thanks
-Dan
Hey Dan, the Electric cut outs would definately make things louder..AV8tor on this list has them..IIRC..they cost about $300.00 and that doesn't include installation...for that kind of money. you could get a CAT Back from SLP, MagnaFlow or Flowmaster...if you shop around a bit...YMMV....FYI
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Old 07-09-2004, 08:28 PM   #37
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Tach 9,

Thanks for the feedback. I know I could get a mean exhaust note with a good catback. I'm just thinking it would be cool if I had both a quiet exhaust and loud on the car. If I get a loud catback its always loud. But if I leave my vortechs on, it stays somewhat quiet when I want it to, then screams when the cutouts are open.

-Dan
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Functional=redline tranny fluid, royal purple full synthetic motor oil, SLP loudmouth catback, SLP catted x-pipe, steeda tri-axle shifter, aftermarket guages w/shiftlight, php intake spacer, jlt cai, moser 31 spline axes, ford 31 spline track lock, motive 4.10 gears, eibach pro springs, SCT custom tune by Jon Lund........

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Old 07-09-2004, 08:53 PM   #38
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good review:THUMBSUP:
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Old 07-18-2004, 10:24 PM   #39
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exhaust

Does anyone know which exhaust mods., if any, will not jeapordize the warranty on the '04 Mach?
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:19 AM   #40
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Re: exhaust

Quote:
Originally posted by Jhmaem
Does anyone know which exhaust mods., if any, will not jeapordize the warranty on the '04 Mach?
Most dealers will not say anything about a cat-back exhaust and it is emissions legal since you are not modding anything emissions related. Now noise emission on the other hand....it depends on how strict law enforcement is.
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:55 AM   #41
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To all inquires,
I thought the exhaust review was great for all manufactures involved, However i must say i thought the subjectives notes inregaurds to SLP's loudness was highly exagerated. The SLP loudmouth cat back system, in my opinion was not too loud and i disagree that you could be heard from 10 blocks away. Maybe 2 or 3 blocks, but not 10. The installation was like what they said. I have the SLP loudmouth cat back system on my Mach1 and the installation took me 45 minutes on a hoist. It might take as much as a 1 1/2 for others but the installation was a piece of cake and probably the easiest exhaust cat back system i have ever installed and everything fit perfectly. At this point i wouldnt hesitate to recomend them to anyone that want an awsome sound. SLP has a tone all their own and thats what sets them apart from all other exhaust systems. Also note, i would go a little louder by getting rid of the cats and use a offroad H-pipe or X-pipe in place of cats. Dont waste your time with the catted pipes doods and you'll save yourself some money too. And though you many void your emission warranty at least you wont have cats to plug up your exhaust system or rob your engine of the power it truely makes. Its your choice. Thats my 2 cents.
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:27 AM   #42
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Great review....I just wish you had sound clips.


Those SLP's look prety good. :THUMBSUP:
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:27 AM   #43
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Great review....I just wish you had sound clips.


Those SLP's look pretty good. :THUMBSUP:
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Old 07-19-2004, 01:48 AM   #44
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Cat-back exhaust

DanK, thanks for the prompt reply. What is exactly is a cat-back exhaust? As I read the Mach 1 review of the three exhaust types tested, they looked like much more than a muffler. Which system do you like for power w/o too much noise?
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Old 07-19-2004, 02:38 AM   #45
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A cat back system generaly is everything from the catalyst toward the rear of the car. Which include mufflers, tailpipes, and tips. Some systems have the mufflers welded onto the rest of the tail pipes making it a two piece system. SLP makes their system in 3 pieces which makes installation a piece of cake. Some systems have mid inlet pipes, mufflers, talipipes, and tips. Depends on what system you want to use. This gerneraly is how a cat back system is defined.
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Old 07-19-2004, 12:57 PM   #46
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Re: Cat-back exhaust

Quote:
Originally posted by Jhmaem
DanK, thanks for the prompt reply. What is exactly is a cat-back exhaust? As I read the Mach 1 review of the three exhaust types tested, they looked like much more than a muffler. Which system do you like for power w/o too much noise?
Orange Whip answered part of your question. If you look under your car you will see where the "cat-back" bolts to the stock H-pipe. As far as what exhaust I like....as far as power...we're only talking a couple of hp difference between exhaust brands. My suggestion is to pick by sound, fitment, durability, and weight. I went with the Borla Stinger cat-back from Performance Peddlers back in March. They had the absolute best price around as many others here will attest to...$405 shipped to your door if you tell them you are with the Mach 1 Registry. I had a lift I rented and removed stock exhaust and put on Stinger cat-back in an hour and twenty minutes. Everything fit perfectly and the system was really light. The tips are already in place so you don't have to worry about putting them on unlike some brands. Just alighn the tips in the center of the bumper exhaust cutouts and tighten all clamps. That is the hardest part of it all right there.

The exhuast sounds like the car is running under water when brand new but don't be alarmed. The exhaust will sound better (sweet) after a few hundred miles of break-in time. The sound is awesome but not overpowering with the stock H-pipe. Good luck with whatever you choose. :THUMBSUP:
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Old 07-19-2004, 09:04 PM   #47
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Nice link

The testers remarked that the tone quality was very pleasant and gave the Mach 1 an authoritative note without an ear shattering loudness.

Everyone who's heard my car with the 'Flows on likes them. A couple of buddies who really aren't too high on the Mach loved the sound of the Flows. They aren't enough for a lot of people, but they are plenty loud for me.

That write up claiming a 12rwhp/8rwt gain from the Flows is consistent with my seat of the pants assesement. The car just seems to run a little stronger. The change in the A/F ratio's may explain why it seemed to run better with the Flows after I disconnected the battery to reset the computer.
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Old 07-20-2004, 12:44 PM   #48
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cat-back

Thanks for the detailed info. One more question. Why not just get a muffler, why change out so much of the piping under the car? Isn't the muffler what makes all the difference?
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Old 07-20-2004, 02:57 PM   #49
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Re: cat-back

Quote:
Originally posted by Jhmaem
Thanks for the detailed info. One more question. Why not just get a muffler, why change out so much of the piping under the car? Isn't the muffler what makes all the difference?
YOu can do that too. tach9 tried that also(do a search) and found that at stock or near stock hp levels changing out the muffs was within a couple of hp of doing a whole cat-back. The larger piping will give a little deeper sound too. If I had my way.... I would want a mandrel bent 2 1/4" cat-back but they don't make one. Try it out and verify tach9's results. I went ahead with the exhaust I got so there is plenty of flow for mods done down the road. 2 1/4" would be perfect.
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Old 07-20-2004, 04:32 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Greene
I have the Magnaflow X/cats and Magnaflow catback. It's not overly loud at cruising RPM's, the 2 were designed by Magnaflow to work together, and I noticed no low RPM power loss. But my tune is good.


While I appreciate tach9 and crew's hard work testing the catbacks, I don't think it proved much by adding different catbacks to a car with CAI and not tuning for each. It did prove, to me anyway, that all the catbacks are similar in the power they make, and your decision should be based on factors other than reported power gains or losses. I believe Tach9 has said the same thing.
I also had the Magnaflow X/cats and catback installed. The power gain was noticable the second I put my foot to the floor. I couldn't be happier. It was $950.00 well spent.
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