4.30's or 4.10

[XSELLR8]

Although I was very tempted to switch to 4.30s when I re-did my rear end, this thread made it pretty clear that the best advantage for 4.10s or 4.30s would be for a track or at low speeds. It was a little more important to me to have a car that was "faster" (top end) not "quicker" (bottom end). I justify horsepower for passing trucks on the freeway, and the unlikely but possible need to outrun someone chasing you, so that's why I prefer 3.55s.

When people ask which gear is "faster" (4.30s or 3.55s), I have a hard time because it really depends on what standard you judge it by- 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, 75mph+... each set up has pros and cons or there would only be one option. MY personal preference (though I will make it VERY clear I do NOT promote street racing) is to see what a car does all out- not 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, but 0-130 or a mile. If not, you end up with cars like the new skyline GT-R or Subarus, where the technicians gave it gearing and AWD to satisfy the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times (the only thing people read about) but the car gets passed by it's competitors if they race a full mile. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OZlGMX8G3B4 Is one car truely faster than another if the other car is coming up fast on you, but you reach the 1/4 mile 1st? A race is a race, so yes, but at the same time no. FOR ME, I would rather have the car do best in the long run. That's why I kept 3.55s. Don't get upset or confused- those other gears work miracles for our cars, it just depends on what you are looking for.

[04Mach1FTW]

XSELLR8

Ok, I hear you and feel pretty much the same way, heres my real question (ON A CLOSED COURSE) Do you say top end like top of 4th, or top like riding out 5th? With the 3.55 gear, your 4th already goes over 140, and with the 4.10s I know its less. If you had 4.10 or 4.30s, couldnt you use that to your advantage and countinue in 5th?

[XSELLR8]

What I meant by that was that I would not like to pay the price of running out of gear with 4.30s once 4th ended at 120. As mentioned earlier in this thread, 5th is not just another gear. Once you hit it you don't accelerate the same. I had a great time on the Las Vegas freeway a week ago, 3rd being perfect at freeway speeds - it seemed right on my power band. Maybe 4.30s would still be better, but I've heard you run out and need to be in 4rth by that speed and that's right where the advantage switches to 3.55s

Yeah. I am just going off of what I have read here, so I probably still have a lot to learn

If 5th was a different ratio, it might be a different story.

[04Mach1FTW]

ok, ic. Ive never tried to run the car hard in 5th, but I guess it must be pretty useless.

[XSELLR8]

Originally Posted by Orange whip 04

Here you go

Gear Type 5 Speed Manual 3650 trans
Final Drive 3.55:1
1st Gear Ratio 3.38:1
2nd Gear Ratio 2.00:1
3rd Gear Ratio 1.32:1
4th Gear Ratio 1.00:1
5th Gear Ratio 0.62:1

So does anyone know if the 5th gear ratio listed here is really hard to push, and that's why 5th kills the car? I figure it's like a bike sprocket, the smaller it is, the harder to push. I need interpretation.

[04dsgMACHONE]

Originally Posted by XSELLR8

this thread made it pretty clear that the best advantage for 4.10s or 4.30s would be for a track or at low speeds. It was a little more important to me to have a car that was "faster" (top end) not "quicker" (bottom end).

MY personal preference (though I will make it VERY clear I do NOT promote street racing) is to see what a car does all out- not 0-60, 1/8, 1/4, but 0-130 or a mile. If not, you end up with cars like the new skyline GT-R or Subarus, where the technicians gave it gearing and AWD to satisfy the 0-60 & 1/4 mile times (the only thing people read about) but the car gets passed by it's competitors if they race a full mile. FOR ME, I would rather have the car do best in the long run.

It's more important to you to have a car that could achieve a higher speed without running out of gear? Do you run mile events? Do you frequently run 120+? If you run 120+ often (which you obviously do since your sole reason in keeping 3.55s is for the top end, 140?mph range) and don't run in any mile events, you really need to reconsider the dangers of doing so. Cars are built towards a 1/4 performance and 0-60 times because that's what most people feel and enjoy out of the car. Plus it's an easy way to measure it's performance, since it's the most common way that other people measure their cars.

Originally Posted by XSELLR8

What I meant by that was that I would not like to pay the price of running out of gear with 4.30s once 4th ended at 120. As mentioned earlier in this thread, 5th is not just another gear. Once you hit it you don't accelerate the same. I had a great time on the Las Vegas freeway a week ago, 3rd being perfect at freeway speeds - it seemed right on my power band. Maybe 4.30s would still be better, but I've heard you run out and need to be in 4rth by that speed and that's right where the advantage switches to 3.55s

Yeah. I am just going off of what I have read here, so I probably still have a lot to learn

If 5th was a different ratio, it might be a different story.

Again, are you frequently running past 120 on highways?
I mean if you're running out of gear at the track that's understandable, but you're talking about running 120 plus which is completely overkill if you're just trying to have a little fun. I have way more fun with my 4.30s on the highway at 70mph, at a stop, on turns, at cruising speeds (40-55mph), and just any type of situation you can imagine. My car pulls way harder even in the higher speeds (70+) than my 3.55s ever did.

Oh, and my 5th with 4.30s is like my 4th was with 3.55s.

[04dsgMACHONE]

Originally Posted by Mach916

355s without a doubt.. 430s max out at 120 thats 6800 in 4th

I'd just have to see that to believe it. For sure to 120 the 4.30s would be quicker, and even going to 130 from 120-130 in fifth I can't see the 3.55s being able to catch the 4.30 geared car.

[Drenath]

4.30 + big tire

I'll be putting a 4.56 in my Eaton swapped Mach with a big tire this year and go shooting for low 11's

[XSELLR8]

Well 04dsgmach1, let me clear some things up here before you get too upset. 1st off, i dont frequent 120 mph. I understand the risks and am not interested in the consequences. Yes, I said I like having a better top end. As you may recall, I like 3.55s for the way 3rd gear is at freeway speeds. The main point I want to make about "running out if gear" is that (according to others) with 4.30s you have to be in 4th at 75 which puts you at a disadvantage from a 3.55 car in 3rd. That is what I meant as far as running out of gear- 3rd gear.

I didn't like the idea of the car running out of breath during 3rd gear (even though you claim it doesn't). I didn't mean to make it seem like I am always doing 120+, just wanted to say I prefer a better top end, mainly for freeway use.

Understand that there is a lot of personal preference involved with gear set ups.- I decided 3.55s were better for me for freeway use- don't go around accusing me of always doing 120+ just because I said that. Just because I buy z rated tires because I like the IDEA of a tire that won't blow out at 120 doesn't mean I am always doing 120. Should I accuse you of always street racing because you have a V8 and like 4.30s? See my point? I see your point that there isn't much of a need for 3.55s because you're never up around 120 anyway- you just need to not jump to your first conclusion of MY reasons for having 3.55s.

I like lower freeway rpms mainly for less wear and tear on the engine, accessories, drive train, and a few Better mpgs. Try to understand where people may be coming from.

[04dsgMACHONE]

Originally Posted by XSELLR8

Well 04dsgmach1, let me clear some things up here before you get too upset. 1st off, i dont frequent 120 mph. I understand the risks and am not interested in the consequences. Yes, I said I like having a better top end. As you may recall, I like 3.55s for the way 3rd gear is at freeway speeds. The main point I want to make about "running out if gear" is that (according to others) with 4.30s you have to be in 4th at 75 which puts you at a disadvantage from a 3.55 car in 3rd. That is what I meant as far as running out of gear- 3rd gear.

I didn't like the idea of the car running out of breath during 3rd gear (even though you claim it doesn't). I didn't mean to make it seem like I am always doing 120+, just wanted to say I prefer a better top end, mainly for freeway use.

Understand that there is a lot of personal preference involved with gear set ups.- I decided 3.55s were better for me for freeway use- don't go around accusing me of always doing 120+ just because I said that. Just because I buy z rated tires because I like the IDEA of a tire that won't blow out at 120 doesn't mean I am always doing 120. Should I accuse you of always street racing because you have a V8 and like 4.30s? See my point? I see your point that there isn't much of a need for 3.55s because you're never up around 120 anyway- you just need to not jump to your first conclusion of MY reasons for having 3.55s.

I like lower freeway rpms mainly for less wear and tear on the engine, accessories, drive train, and a few Better mpgs. Try to understand where people may be coming from.

That right there was a much more reasonable explanation for why you went with 3.55s. I, myself, wasn't saying you go 120+, that's what you made yourself sound like you do. You made the comment that the sole reason you went with 3.55s was because you like top end better and didn't like 4th ran out at 120. So that was you making yourself out to like that, not me.

My fourth at 75 still pulls stronger than my 3rd did at 75 with 3.55s. Just letting you know, the reasoning before that you gave didn't really make much sense, unless you did take it up past 120 often, otherwise I can't see why you wouldn't have chosen 4.30s or 4.10s considering your preferences. Just because I'm in 4th at 75 doesn't put me at a disadvantage to your third.

[XSELLR8]

So you're saying it's EASIER to push a 4th gear ratio of 1.0:1 than a 3rd gear ratio of 1.32:1 ??? Other people have already said thats not true. That's why some people have gone back to 3.55s. I think it's pretty clear the car won't pull the same - and dont even think about 5th when you're at .62:1 (even though you never go that fast anyway, but soneone else might on the autobahn or a track) Those final drive ratios may change with 4.30s, but what you need to understand is the fact that 4th and 5th are harder to push than 3rd due to their respective ratios.
You do understand that a better low end sacrifices your top end...don't you?

Doesn't sound like you have read all 8 pages of this thread...or payed much attention to others who disagree with what you're saying.

One last thing. Have you replaced your 150 mph gauges with V6 120 mph gauges, thrown out your z rated tires, and put on your 115 mph governor yet? If not, why do you have 4.30s ?
Ok, just joking around with you now, not trying to start a fight

[Mach1owner]

Originally Posted by XSELLR8

So you're saying it's EASIER to push a 4th gear ratio of 1.0:1 than a 3rd gear ratio of 1.32:1 ??? Other people have already said thats not true. That's why some people have gone back to 3.55s. I think it's pretty clear the car won't pull the same - and dont even think about 5th when you're at .62:1 (even though you never go that fast anyway, but soneone else might on the autobahn or a track) Those final drive ratios may change with 4.30s, but what you need to understand is the fact that 4th and 5th are harder to push than 3rd due to their respective ratios.
You do understand that a better low end sacrifices your top end...don't you?

Doesn't sound like you have read all 8 pages of this thread...or payed much attention to others who disagree with what you're saying.

One last thing. Have you replaced your 150 mph gauges with V6 120 mph gauges, thrown out your z rated tires, and put on your 115 mph governor yet? If not, why do you have 4.30s ?
Ok, just joking around with you now, not trying to start a fight

Ok im just going to state that i havent read the whole theard....but just one question/comment.

Wont the actual top speed of a 4.30 gear car be higher than a 3.55. I know i cant push fifth at all with the 3.55

[04dsgMACHONE]

Originally Posted by XSELLR8

So you're saying it's EASIER to push a 4th gear ratio of 1.0:1 than a 3rd gear ratio of 1.32:1 ??? Other people have already said thats not true. That's why some people have gone back to 3.55s. I think it's pretty clear the car won't pull the same - and dont even think about 5th when you're at .62:1 (even though you never go that fast anyway, but soneone else might on the autobahn or a track) Those final drive ratios may change with 4.30s, but what you need to understand is the fact that 4th and 5th are harder to push than 3rd due to their respective ratios.
You do understand that a better low end sacrifices your top end...don't you?

Doesn't sound like you have read all 8 pages of this thread...or payed much attention to others who disagree with what you're saying.

One last thing. Have you replaced your 150 mph gauges with V6 120 mph gauges, thrown out your z rated tires, and put on your 115 mph governor yet? If not, why do you have 4.30s ?
Ok, just joking around with you now, not trying to start a fight

Oh yeah, they manufacture cars with 150+ speedos cause that's what speeds they want you to go! 115mph governor? Mines set at 80! hahaha

**** I really need to see what RPMs I'm at at 70-75 I can't remember but I'm pretty sure I'm still able to hit third. I believe I'm a bit over 5k at 70mph in third or maybe I just pulled those numbers out of my ***. Either way, I know what the car felt like very well before I put 4.30s in. I wasn't trying to come off douchey, but your first reasoning for staying with 3.55s didn't even make sense. Now wanting less RPMs on the highway for less wear and tear and stuff is completely understandable.

[XSELLR8]

Originally Posted by Mach1owner

Ok im just going to state that i havent read the whole theard....but just one question/comment.

Wont the actual top speed of a 4.30 gear car be higher than a 3.55. I know i cant push fifth at all with the 3.55

Technically, a 3.55:1 gear set will give you a higher top speed than a 4.30:1 gear set, but the truth is you will never have the horsepower to top out 5th in either set up. It's just harder to push 5th gear than 4th, so the 3.55s are better for higher speeds.'cause you are in 4th longer, giving you a higher speed to go into 5th with. The advantage now is that 4th has ended at 120 mph for the 4.30 car while a 3.55 car can go 135-140 in 4th (easier to do than a 4.30 car in 5th)

On page 1 of this thread its shows 3.55s top out at 236 mph (5th gear) and 4.30s at 194 mph 5th gear. Both are insane numbers we'll never see.

The video below is a 3.55 car. Pay attention to how 4th pulls. By the way, this is NOT me in the video.

http://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_u...&v=nkcnrDyk1dI

[XSELLR8]

Originally Posted by 04dsgMACHONE

Oh yeah, they manufacture cars with 150+ speedos cause that's what speeds they want you to go! 115mph governor? Mines set at 80! hahaha

**** I really need to see what RPMs I'm at at 70-75 I can't remember but I'm pretty sure I'm still able to hit third. I believe I'm a bit over 5k at 70mph in third or maybe I just pulled those numbers out of my ***. Either way, I know what the car felt like very well before I put 4.30s in. I wasn't trying to come off douchey, but your first reasoning for staying with 3.55s didn't even make sense. Now wanting less RPMs on the highway for less wear and tear and stuff is completely understandable.

Good to see that I made a friend today

[Rumplemenz]

my 4 banger camry was at 3k at 80... my DD bmw 330 is at 3k when cruising at 80... my mach with 4.10's is about 2600-2700 i believe when doing 80... so im not sure why so many get worried about revving to high in 5th I mentioned to someone the other day that my mach had 4.10's (they were asking about it) and they were stunned... its like the word 4.10's (430 456) has a bad reputation sometimes.... cruising is a marginal difference... its really irrelevant actually.... where the difference in rpm changes dramatically is when the mach is way up in rpm band.... theres spots where the rpm's could be 1000 higher with 4.10's vs 3.55s... but for some reason ( i myself included years ago with my 2k gt) the main concern is cruising on the highway ha

BTW.... just read a few of the posts above.. some interesting info and a good debate...and the more i look at it XSELLR8 has a good point... if this is the case are 4.10 only really beneficially from the dig? seems like from this info 3.55's actually will beat out 4.10's when roll racing.. is this the case? just curious

[Mach1owner]

I just had 4.30's put in last week and when im accelerating it just feels much quicker.....even 2-4 pulls onto the highway up to about 80.

[Mach916]

i will have some vids soon... i have 430s going back to 373s.. and back to back runs with my friends..keep you guys posted
check this out guys (ralph green) http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/...eal+ford+gears

[XSELLR8]

I was enjoying the Mach 1 with some friends the other day, and I just dont understand how anyone can hook 4.30s with street tires! I had a hard enough time hooking up with brand new tires. I would also like to run a 4.30 car from a dig, then 60ish to see the differences. By the way Rumplemenez, thanks for being open minded. Its good to discuss both sides of the spectrum and understand I'm not trying to downtalk other gear sets. IMO, the cars are the same HP, it just depends on where you want to end up at what part of the track.

[XSELLR8]

Originally Posted by Rumplemenz

BTW.... just read a few of the posts above.. some interesting info and a good debate...and the more i look at it XSELLR8 has a good point... if this is the case are 4.10 only really beneficially from the dig? seems like from this info 3.55's actually will beat out 4.10's when roll racing.. is this the case? just curious

From what others have said, 3.55s would favor a roll situation. I would imagine the trade off would be 3.55s upwards of 50 mph?? I have read some people in this thread say that's why they are switching back.

[TRmachwon]

How is traction with boltons and street tires with either 4.10s or 4.30s? Any traction in 1st?

[Mach916]

Originally Posted by TRmachwon

How is traction with boltons and street tires with either 4.10s or 4.30s? Any traction in 1st?

traction with 430s on street tires...

[Mach916]

all the info you need guys..... http://www.svtperformance.com/forums...l#post10833273

[torch_red]

Try americanmuscle.com. usually have good prices and free shipping.

[Gallows]

Originally Posted by Gallows

I am running a intercooled V2SQ with 452rwhp with the stock T45, 4:10's and 315/35/17 BFG drag radials primarily on the street and they are a good gear.

Quoting myself and the difference a year makes. I spun a bearing with my stock engine and s/c setup and swapped in a 03 Aviator engine Mods below) and the 4:10's aren't cutting it anymore. I am looking forward to getting the 4:56's put in.