|
|
Power Adders Superchargers, Turbos, Nitrous, etc... |
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
03-09-2011, 10:29 PM | #26 |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
On Kenne Bell site, selection of superchargers, then selection of Cobra/Mach 1 99-01, the initial image shows a supercharger and above it says:
Cobra/Mach 1 99-01 2.1, 2.6 Kits Non Intercooled Intercooled 400-605 RWHP 470-711 EHP http://www.kennebell.net/KBWebsite/S...%20%281%29.htm But when you click on it to get more specifics, it only talks about the 2.1L Also, within the Cobra/Mach 1 page: "KENNE BELL 2.1L 13-21 psi 8 Rib System" and the below as well (I bolded the text to highlight the part I may be confused about (probably the case) or that you may be confused about, or not knowledgeable about)(but again, no reference on the page anywhere about the 2.6H): "Same power potential as the '03-'04 Cobra with the Kenne Bell kit. 9 psi about max on pump gas with stock rods & pistons. This kit will produce 462HP at 9 psi and 449HP at 7.5 psi.Kit includes necessary fuel system and inlet upgrades (Kenne Bell Cool Air Kit, BOOST-A-PUMP™, 90mm Meter, SWITCH CHIP®, 42lb Injectors and Cobra Inlet Tube). Max boost for the 2.1L is 18 psi, but Cobra/Manley low compression pistons and rods are necessary for boost above 9 psi. '03 Cobra intercooler, heat exchanger, fill tank pump, hoses, fittings, adaptors and all hardware is included."
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) Last edited by OSUALUM78; 03-09-2011 at 10:52 PM. |
03-09-2011, 10:51 PM | #27 |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
To Archie, regarding the "Dragon big oval throttle body ported by POSI ":
I read 50/50 good/bad on the Dragon from others on forums like svtperformance. Many do go with the Dragon though. here's why I picked the Billetflow: On the Billetflow, I read all good (except the higher cost than say an Accufab), specifically (from what I've read from others on forums like svtperformance, plus the quote below from their site is a reassuring claim. If it isn't true, then it's false advertising): "We are the ONLY manufacturer to use proper cam geometry on an oval throttle body for proper pedal height and feel. We are the ONLY manufacturer to use proper cruise control button location for trouble free cruise control use. There is no need to worry about blade screws coming loose and going through your supercharger and destroying it as we crimp the retention screws just like OEM... can the others say that?" To me being the "only" vs. "the best" are different claims. In the realm of monos, I have read by many, that the cruise control not working at all or sticking is a problematic symptom of the mono style TB. If they are the "only" mono TB that resolves this problem, doesn't it make it the "best" by default? But if they just stated what most parts companies state (Something like: "We are the best throttle body on the market" or "We are the best supercharger on the market") that holds no weight in comparison in my mind. Is my logic correct? I have no idea. My first cause for concern would be that it (any part for that matter) works right, and secondly, the part(s) helps in someway. Because if it doesn't work right, then why have it; and if it works right but doesn't help in any capacity, then why have it? http://www.billetflow.com/2003SVTCobra.htm http://www.billetflow.com/new%20images/cobrablack1.jpg with plenum http://www.billetflow.com/new%20images/cobraclear2.jpg
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
03-09-2011, 11:07 PM | #28 |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
What about adjusting the cam timing on the FRPP Aluminator longblock before I start on installing anything on it and before I drop it in?
I read an old MMFF article (Dec 2006 issue, http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...all/index.html) on a KB add on to an 96 Cobra 4.6 4V, and they talk about retarding the Comp cams in that motor.... and then in another article on another page in that issue (http://www.musclemustangfastfords.co...ing/index.html) they talk about cam timing on the mod motors, and how the 4V's are prone to coming out of the factory off the prescribed settings, and one should do a compression test between the two banks, etc. So, does it make sense to do a compression test and/or retard the FRPP Aluminator cam timing?
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
03-10-2011, 12:12 AM | #29 | |
Once Bitten-Twice Shy
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Castle, Delaware USA
Posts: 3,370
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
Scott mentioned that the Aluminator only comes in 8.5:1 compression, but that's not exactly true. There is a 10.0:1 compression version, but I don't know of anyone who has put a twin screw blower on one of those. The 8.5cr version is marketed to be a direct replacement for an 03/04 Cobra, and as such it only comes with the Cobra front timing/accessory cover. In order to mount a KB 2.1 to it, you would need to switch your stock Mach 1 timing cover over to the Aluminator, along with your stock pulley's and any accessories that you might be keeping, like the alternator, and water pump. I'd like to know if you have a shop lined up to do this build for you, and if you do, have you asked them what they might recommend for additional supporting parts and hardware to get you where you want to be?
__________________
Mach1Registry.com Member #7 MCA Member #52787 Nice to meet you, my name's Jim 03 Torch Red Mach 1, 5-speed, IUP Sold on July 21st 2012! 2011 Shelby GT500, Ebony Black, Silver Stripes, 6-speed 550hp 510tq Purchased July 23, 2012! |
|
03-10-2011, 12:55 AM | #30 | |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
See below in bold. Thanks again and keep it coming!
Quote:
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
|
03-10-2011, 01:22 AM | #31 |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Tomorrow, I am going to call KB, and get pricing for:
2.6H supercharger satin finish, Mach 1 kit for shaker bracket, intercooler for Mach/Cobra engine, heat exchanger, Boost-A-Pump (not sure which amp one I would need), 8 rib system with 7.5" crank pulley, cool air kit, 90mm MAF, Boost-A-Spark, new harnesses for relocation of knock sensors, water inlet tube and fittings, 2 belts (one as a backup, just in case running one breaks), 160 degree thermostat, pulley wrench, the two pulleys to get me around 550 at the wheels and to get me around the max HP the smallest pulley for the 2.6H with 8 rib system can go, any plumbing or wiring I would need from them, and a base tune for the knock sensor re-calibration and such (even though I am going to have it tuned by my guy). Basically the Mach 1 intercooled kit, but with a 2.6H, add in 8 rib with 7.5" crank pulley, add in cool air kit with 90mm MAF, add in extras I want; leave out/don't add their: injectors, throttle body, fuel pump, and gauges. That is assuming their S/C can work with the Billetflow mono TB and plenum without issue Unless someone else can say otherwise? Like you don't need to waste money on their "chip" tune for re-calibration of the knock sensors or for the supercharger add itself (as in any half a$$sed competent tuner can do that for cheaper), or the Boost-A-Pump in going with Archie's fuel pump/regulator suggestion, or you don't need the Boost-A-Spark, etc. Am I on the right track?
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
03-10-2011, 10:07 AM | #32 |
Soldier for Christ
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Willis, TX at The Daddy ASh Ranch
Posts: 30,596
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
on the boost a pump do a 40amp
ASh
__________________
2001 lazer red v6 Mustang coupe sold in Aug 2006 2004 screaming yellow 5.0 sc Mach 1 sold in Oct 2012 2013 grey 6 speed coupe GT Mustang Sold in Feb 2014 2013 RED Dodge Charger R/T Sold Nov 2014 2002 custom Blue 02 Auto Trans AM Sold June 2015 1998 Cobra Black Sold summer 2016 Current 2009 Ford F350 FX4 March 2017 (work truck) 2003 OW 5.0 Mach 1 Aug 2020 ASh |
03-10-2011, 10:08 AM | #33 |
Soldier for Christ
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Willis, TX at The Daddy ASh Ranch
Posts: 30,596
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
make sure you get a intercooler, i'm sure already said but i wanted to hit on it again, or what you could do is get a nice aftermarket one that is alittle better than stock, just a thought
ASh
__________________
2001 lazer red v6 Mustang coupe sold in Aug 2006 2004 screaming yellow 5.0 sc Mach 1 sold in Oct 2012 2013 grey 6 speed coupe GT Mustang Sold in Feb 2014 2013 RED Dodge Charger R/T Sold Nov 2014 2002 custom Blue 02 Auto Trans AM Sold June 2015 1998 Cobra Black Sold summer 2016 Current 2009 Ford F350 FX4 March 2017 (work truck) 2003 OW 5.0 Mach 1 Aug 2020 ASh |
03-10-2011, 10:21 AM | #34 |
Once Bitten-Twice Shy
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Castle, Delaware USA
Posts: 3,370
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
I'm at work and can't go into alot of details right now, but you can't use the 2.6H blower on a Mach 1 kit! The KB website is kind of confusing because they lump the two together, and can give the impression you can use either the 2.1 or 2.6, but that isn't the case! The blower kit you want to order is this one:
** TB1000-MACH+ KIT 6399.00 16-20 PSI KIT W/AC (MACH 1) INTERCOOLED INCLUDES BOOST-A-PUMP, 2.1L (Recommend '03 Cobra style rods & pistons. 8 rib system required for 650-700+HP. Use 60lb injectors and Big Oval Throttle Body) This is basically a "tuner kit" for the Mach 1. This is the same one that I have. We told KB that we were going to run at 16psi, and they ship the kit with the pulley that matches that. In my case, they screwed up the first time around, and sent the wrong pulley, but they exchanged it for the proper one overnight.
__________________
Mach1Registry.com Member #7 MCA Member #52787 Nice to meet you, my name's Jim 03 Torch Red Mach 1, 5-speed, IUP Sold on July 21st 2012! 2011 Shelby GT500, Ebony Black, Silver Stripes, 6-speed 550hp 510tq Purchased July 23, 2012! |
03-10-2011, 11:24 AM | #35 | |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
Yes it is confusing. I'm not disagreeing with you on being able to run the 2.6H on the Mach. You've got the experience, I don't. My questions is why not (or run the 2.8H)? I mean, I will have a Terminator fully forged engine....they can supply an 03 Cobra intercooler, heat exchanger, etc. Is it have to do with the shaker mounting bracket?
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
|
03-10-2011, 11:57 AM | #36 | |
Once Bitten-Twice Shy
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: New Castle, Delaware USA
Posts: 3,370
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
Look at the snout on an 03/04 Cobra stock Eaton, Whipple, or the bigger Kenne Bells, and it is much longer! This is because the Cobra uses a two belt system. One belt just for the supercharger, one belt for all the other accessories. The crankshaft pulley on the Cobra is really like two pulleys together, the inner one, closest to the engine, is for the belt that runs the accessories, the outer one is for the belt that runs the supercharger, and this is why the snout has to be longer. The Mach 1 kit is a single belt system that resembles the stock serpentine belt setup. The physical size of the blowers is different too. The 2.1 has a lower profile, while the 2.6 on up, have a high profile (taller), so fitting them underneath the shaker scoop is really difficult.
__________________
Mach1Registry.com Member #7 MCA Member #52787 Nice to meet you, my name's Jim 03 Torch Red Mach 1, 5-speed, IUP Sold on July 21st 2012! 2011 Shelby GT500, Ebony Black, Silver Stripes, 6-speed 550hp 510tq Purchased July 23, 2012! |
|
03-10-2011, 01:59 PM | #37 | |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
So based on your text, if a larger S/C could fit underneath the hood (snout length and height), could I get the 'dual' crank pulley from a Cobra and 2 belts, and then use a KB 2.6H or KB 2.8H or Whipple? So in a nutshell, if the above idea won't work, either because I can't put on a 'dual' crank Cobra pulley and run a 2 belt system, or the S/C just plain won't fit because of the shaker or snout length, if I want to go the easiest route, as in a kit, I am stuck with the KB 2.1L Mach kit and what power that can make?
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
|
03-10-2011, 02:21 PM | #38 |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 6,414
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Have you even bothered to call KB and ask them?
|
03-10-2011, 02:57 PM | #39 |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
I just called KB. Kudos to TRMach1 on being right on the money!
The short of it, with KB is I go Mach 1 kit 2.1L or go somewhere else to make the power I want. They don't 'upgrade to a bigger S/C, nor could I buy the Mach 1 kit, sell the 2.1L to someone, and buy a 2.6H or 2.8H from them, as they don't sell just the S/C itself. Their S/C core pricing listed in the PDF file is for replacement only if you send in your old core that cannot be fixed. But they did refer me to Tim, formerly of MPH, now of American/Modern Muscle out of Illinois, that is supposedly best friends with the owner of KB, Jim. Apparently Tim is the only one outside of KB authorized to sell KB parts due to his relationship with Jim. Jim lets Tim do the custom setups of this nature. KB (it sounded like as in Jim) doesn't want to take the time , money, or manpower to get into custom applications of this degree. I will know more once I talk to Tim again. He said he had to research some things like the timing cover and get back to me.
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
03-10-2011, 03:46 PM | #40 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: San Antonio
Posts: 6,414
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
It runs the 2 belt setup with an 8 rib on the supercharger... all aftermarket blowers for the 03/04 cobra setup are BOLT-ONS to the eaton swap setup. |
|
03-10-2011, 04:09 PM | #41 |
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: MI
Posts: 358
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
^ agree
__________________
2004 Mach 1 Vortech V2-SQ, Powerpipe, BBK LT's, catted X-pipe, 4.10's, Roy's 7/8 spacer. 470 rwhp 410 rwtq On a mustang dyno |
03-10-2011, 04:16 PM | #42 | |
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
I wonder why their site has "Max of 750HP" all over the 99/01 Cobra / Mach 1 page? Sounds misleading or false advertising. Kind of like the fact it says 2.1L and 2.6H on it too. If they are going advertise like that, I may be going with Whipple. Looks like I'll be referring to your sticky thread then. Hopefully I can understand it all. I am sure it will be cheaper this way too? So now it comes down to, if I do Eaton swap method, do I go with KB or Whipple 03/04 bolt-on S/C, and which unit?
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
|
03-10-2011, 04:51 PM | #43 | |
Mach1 member
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: East Haven, CT
Posts: 3,349
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
__________________
2011 Mustang GT Grabber Blue Automatic 2003 Mach 1 Whipple 2.3 718 rwhp 735 rwtq @25 psi SOLD |
|
03-10-2011, 05:01 PM | #44 | |
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Monroe,Mi
Posts: 340
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
__________________
Ethan 2003 Zinc Mach 1 Bassani Off Road X Slp LM1 17" Black Bullitts 315 Nitto DR |
|
03-10-2011, 05:37 PM | #45 | |
Soldier for Christ
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Willis, TX at The Daddy ASh Ranch
Posts: 30,596
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
ASh
__________________
2001 lazer red v6 Mustang coupe sold in Aug 2006 2004 screaming yellow 5.0 sc Mach 1 sold in Oct 2012 2013 grey 6 speed coupe GT Mustang Sold in Feb 2014 2013 RED Dodge Charger R/T Sold Nov 2014 2002 custom Blue 02 Auto Trans AM Sold June 2015 1998 Cobra Black Sold summer 2016 Current 2009 Ford F350 FX4 March 2017 (work truck) 2003 OW 5.0 Mach 1 Aug 2020 ASh |
|
03-10-2011, 05:39 PM | #46 |
Soldier for Christ
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Willis, TX at The Daddy ASh Ranch
Posts: 30,596
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
i know the aluminator is a good motor but are you set on that??? could take and get a built crate motor from somewhere else and stroke it to a 5.0 or 5.4 the power will be alot better, when i got my stroke motor i gain 25rwhp just for it being stroked also a lower CR than the mach, mine is now low 9's, but i think you just need to face it that with the mach 2.1 KB your not going to make the power you want, these guys are handing you the info your asking, so take it and run with it and get your build on
ASh
__________________
2001 lazer red v6 Mustang coupe sold in Aug 2006 2004 screaming yellow 5.0 sc Mach 1 sold in Oct 2012 2013 grey 6 speed coupe GT Mustang Sold in Feb 2014 2013 RED Dodge Charger R/T Sold Nov 2014 2002 custom Blue 02 Auto Trans AM Sold June 2015 1998 Cobra Black Sold summer 2016 Current 2009 Ford F350 FX4 March 2017 (work truck) 2003 OW 5.0 Mach 1 Aug 2020 ASh |
03-10-2011, 07:51 PM | #47 | ||
2003 Black Cobra
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Somewhere in the middle
Posts: 2,506
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Quote:
I am not going to mess with Aluminator in the sense of tearing it open to change compression. Now should degree cams or mess with timing before install (this can be done without tearing into the motor correct?), I have no idea. After talking with KB (today wasn't my first call to them), and reading on their site, more and more they seem to be a company that has a clue what they are talking about, but only in retrospect to their product, not compared to the S/C market. That's just my opinion though. With the same note, based on my opinion, prior to talking with them the few times I have, their customer service is pretty poor which is steering me to doing the Eaton method and going with a Whipple. I could have dealt with the power the 2.1L puts out, but their poor customer service and their site being sketchy, I am off into the land I didn't want to go. Piecing together my own 'kit' by going the Eaton method. I really just wanted to buy an all inclusive kit that could get me to 500-550 and to 650-700 at the wheels. Quote:
I agree as I related in my reply to Scott's post above yours. Bye KB, onto the Eaton method with a Whipple.
__________________
2003 Black Cobra Build #2224 of 8394 Born: 08/19/02 Mods: nothing worth noting... right now Jamie: custom pedal mountain bike built by me Bettie: 2004 Black Mach 1 (sold but not forgotten) |
||
03-10-2011, 08:00 PM | #48 |
Soldier for Christ
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Willis, TX at The Daddy ASh Ranch
Posts: 30,596
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
when you get into that eaton swap your going to learn alot, just understand that
ASh
__________________
2001 lazer red v6 Mustang coupe sold in Aug 2006 2004 screaming yellow 5.0 sc Mach 1 sold in Oct 2012 2013 grey 6 speed coupe GT Mustang Sold in Feb 2014 2013 RED Dodge Charger R/T Sold Nov 2014 2002 custom Blue 02 Auto Trans AM Sold June 2015 1998 Cobra Black Sold summer 2016 Current 2009 Ford F350 FX4 March 2017 (work truck) 2003 OW 5.0 Mach 1 Aug 2020 ASh |
03-11-2011, 10:53 AM | #49 |
Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 414
|
Re: Twin Screw Change Out
Been through all this, the eaton swap sounds great and then upgrading to the larger KB, problem is getting all the eaton parts is borderline robbery. There seems to be no way of doing this that is cost effective, that is why I stayed with the 2.1 with the 8 rib setup, have not been able to dyno mine yet, hopefully close to 550 and my tuner agrees. The car screamed with 480 before, if your mind is set on over 600HP, buy a cobra and start there. My personal opinion is that a car for the street really does not need more than that, if it is for the track then that is a different story. If I can be of any help PM me. Oh yeah I would stick with 9:1 compression either way.
__________________
2003 Azure Mach1 Fully forged shortblock w/ ARP hardware, JAN 05 heads, 8 rib setup IW 10% OD CS, RR 2.90 Pulley, Thump RR tensioner with KB 2.1 @18psi ,Accufab TB;AFCO dual pass HE,SCT X3,FAST 02 meter, Full JBA exhaust,Centerforce DFX Cl, Fidanza al FW, FRPP al. DS, FRPP traction lok rear w/FRPP 3.73 gears and FRPP 31 spline axles, FRPP rear axle girdle, UPR coil overs with tubular K member, Wilwood 6 pis. calipers w/ 2 piece , 03 cobra bumper. DYNO 550/550 16PSI |
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests) | |
|
|