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Old 03-02-2011, 01:00 AM   #1
TKat13
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Mach Results on E85

I thought I would share my experience with changing to E85 on my Mach. The change is done to a lightly modded setup; 4:10 gears, K&N Filter only, Magnaflow weld-in mufflers, removed the back two cats, Spec Alum. Flywheel and RAM Clutch. That is it.

The Tune consisted of adding an SCT Chip and tune selector switch and having HPP do the tune.

My goal was modest, 300HP and 300TQ on E85. I knew going into this that my gains would be small if any since it is an N/A car but I wanted to run it anyway. (Future mods will be NO2)

To make sure I knew the exact impact of the different kinds of fuel, HPP tuned the car with 93 and then on the same day, emptied the tank and replaced with E85 and re-tuned. This way only one parameter changed, fuel.

I did not do a baseline today, I wish I had but I simply forgot. However, I did a dyno run when I purchased the car new in 2004.

All results are 'corrected'

2004 Results, KN and Magnaflows installed:
HP - 264
TQ - 280

2011 93 Tune by HPP
HP - 296.8
TQ - 314.8

2011 E85 Tune by HPP
HP - 310.1
TQ - 320.8

Goal Achieved! I am very happy with the results and now I have a platform to build on, programmer, etc. The curves looked very good as well, they are on paper as I did not get the electronic copies yet. The curves between the 93 tune and the E85 are very similar. Figured these were good numbers with the limited mods to this car, really nothing.

Next on the list will be to add a Boost A Pump to WOT, give me some wiggle room as I am maxing out the pump at WOT. The next thing to add would be a pump for the future NO2 install.

BTW, I forgot to mention, the day I did the original dyno pull was in March of 04 and I remember the weather being very similar to today. One of those moments you remember because it was the first time I had been to a Dyno.

This maybe old info to all here, but thought I'd share.
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:30 AM   #2
Shane@TM
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Very nice, I'm converting my car to run e85 as well. Seems to show solid power gains in all applications, and its cheaper than 93.
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:07 AM   #3
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Now you just need one of these. http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/ECA/ECA.shtml
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Old 03-02-2011, 02:37 AM   #4
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Re: Mach Results on E85

I am running a SVT Focus Pump and its at 75% duty cycle with E85. Consider that as an option as well.

I saw about the same gains from my E85 swap NA.

Congrats. I saw a 20% drop in fuel economy. Interested to see what your mileage is.
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Old 03-02-2011, 11:44 AM   #5
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Re: Mach Results on E85

I'll report my mileage after I wipe this silly ear-to-ear grin off my face...

Figure a couple of weeks to get use to this new found fun, I mean power and then I may be back to driving normally.

I fully suspect at least 20% less mileage, knew this going into it. However, at 90 cents a gallon cheaper than 93 and the added fun.... well worth it, even if I do break even.

One thing I did not mention, simply forgot. I had Bosch Platinum 4Plus in the car, it was horrible, could barely saw 200HP without detonation, basically shut down the pull it was so bad, that was on 93 Fuel. Had about 5k miles on them. Stopped the tune and put in NGKs. Guys at HPP saw/heard this quickly and took care of the problem. I'll never stray from NGKs again on this car. I'll admit, I got caught up in the advertising of the plugs... lesson learned!
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
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Old 03-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #6
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Re: Mach Results on E85

I found the most rewarding part of the powerband for E85 is down low. And I love the smell. Haha when I floored it around town I saw like 12mpg haha.
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Old 03-02-2011, 01:12 PM   #7
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach828 View Post
I am running a SVT Focus Pump and its at 75% duty cycle with E85. Consider that as an option as well.

I saw about the same gains from my E85 swap NA.

Congrats. I saw a 20% drop in fuel economy. Interested to see what your mileage is.
is the focus pump just plug and play? did you upgrade your injectors?
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Old 03-02-2011, 08:15 PM   #8
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Ya you just pop out the old one, and plug the new one in. And I got mine for $60 on here.

Nope, kept the stock injectors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach916 View Post
is the focus pump just plug and play? did you upgrade your injectors?
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Old 03-03-2011, 10:15 AM   #9
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach828 View Post
Ya you just pop out the old one, and plug the new one in. And I got mine for $60 on here.

Nope, kept the stock injectors.
$60.00? Was that new? If so, who do I contact?

I purchased the BAP yesterday as a precaution when WOT and will install it this weekend. I don't need the focus pump right away however when I do add NO2 will upgrade the pump and swap for 39# injectors, maybe some cobra take-offs.

(did not need the 39# injectors with the Wet Kit, thought I would correct the thread) - edit
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP

Last edited by TKat13; 07-15-2011 at 10:14 AM.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:36 PM   #10
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Great info. So you didn't do anything different to the fuel system before you had it tuned? You are currently running stock pump and injectors? That is what I would like to know. I want to run e85 as well. Keep us posted on the milage in town and on the freeway.
Do you have a chip in it now to allow you to flip between 93 octane tune and then E85 tune?
I am just going to make a wild guess that if you figure the cost per mile to run ethenol compared to Premium. It will be about break even. Then you can figure you are getting the extra HP and TQ for the cost of getting it tuned. Not a bad investment.
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Old 03-03-2011, 01:54 PM   #11
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Re: Mach Results on E85

I just have stock injectors, and the focus pump. Thats it.

I bought the pump from a member on here who had it left over from his build. It had like 1,000 miles on it.

And highway mileage with E85 was were it really suffered. I can get mid to high 20s on gas, but only saw like 18 on E85. City I see about 14-15. But I also have 4.10s, so stock gearing will see better mileage, especially on the highway since I'm at about 3k rpm at 75-80

I have the SCT tuner, so I just plug it in when I want to switch to E85 and change the tune over in about 30 seconds while I'm filling up. Then when I want to switch back to gas, I do the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90white50 View Post
Great info. So you didn't do anything different to the fuel system before you had it tuned? You are currently running stock pump and injectors? That is what I would like to know. I want to run e85 as well. Keep us posted on the milage in town and on the freeway.
Do you have a chip in it now to allow you to flip between 93 octane tune and then E85 tune?
I am just going to make a wild guess that if you figure the cost per mile to run ethenol compared to Premium. It will be about break even. Then you can figure you are getting the extra HP and TQ for the cost of getting it tuned. Not a bad investment.
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Old 03-03-2011, 02:47 PM   #12
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Re: Mach Results on E85

If you could run a better gas tune, could you run a bad gas tune I.e 87 for some around town driving?
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:07 PM   #13
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Re: Mach Results on E85



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown7 View Post
If you could run a better gas tune, could you run a bad gas tune I.e 87 for some around town driving?
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:11 PM   #14
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Only 20% fuel economy loss is better than I thought. How easy is the E-85 to find? I guess if you weren't concerned with switching back and too between the two fuels, you could really raise the compression ratio even higher and get back even more mpg (and power).

With 99% of my driving on the street, I'm more concerned with the economy part than the 1% track time (LOL).
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Old 03-03-2011, 03:44 PM   #15
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hamilton View Post
How easy is the E-85 to find?
http://www.e85refueling.com/
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:29 PM   #16
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by 90white50 View Post
Great info. So you didn't do anything different to the fuel system before you had it tuned? You are currently running stock pump and injectors? That is what I would like to know. I want to run e85 as well. Keep us posted on the milage in town and on the freeway.
Do you have a chip in it now to allow you to flip between 93 octane tune and then E85 tune?
I am just going to make a wild guess that if you figure the cost per mile to run ethenol compared to Premium. It will be about break even. Then you can figure you are getting the extra HP and TQ for the cost of getting it tuned. Not a bad investment.
1. Stock Pump - Yes
2. Stock Injectors - Yes
3. Chip - Yes, That is the one thing I added. It is the SCT chip with tune selector mounted in the coin slot location.
4. Cost per mile - Figured I would break even in the cost per mile department. No misconceptions from me going into this.
5. I did replace my fuel filter as well, just an OEM replacement from WIX. My old one had 70k+ miles on it. (to me that did not count as a mod)

Again, I will mention that I am still adding the BAP for the sake of not running the pumps at 100%. I was told that at WOT I was getting close to maxing out the pump. I did not feel like dropping the tank so the BAP is an easier install and is required for my next mod anyway.
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
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Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:32 PM   #17
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach828 View Post
I have the SCT tuner, so I just plug it in when I want to switch to E85 and change the tune over in about 30 seconds while I'm filling up. Then when I want to switch back to gas, I do the same thing.
You may like the ease of the SCT chip with tune selector. I have an E85 Tune, 93 Tune, Valet (max RPM @3500, speed @40) and a 'does not start' mode.

Very handy!
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:37 PM   #18
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Hamilton View Post
Only 20% fuel economy loss is better than I thought. How easy is the E-85 to find?
Bill, the 'ease' to find the station is something that you must look into with regards to where you live. I was lucky enough to have a station about a mile from my house. Which is when I started looking into it. I am also lucky enough to find one by my work. It is a win-win.

I have found that Kroger gas stations carry this in many locations. Also, when looking at pumps such as the one by my house, only 2 of the 8 pumps have E85 on them.
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Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
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Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 03-03-2011, 04:40 PM   #19
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brown7 View Post
If you could run a better gas tune, could you run a bad gas tune I.e 87 for some around town driving?
I never really thought about this, but I guess you could. But would think you would also lower the Rev limit as well. Even then, I would not feel comfortable driving around on 87 with this compression ratio, regardless of tune. I guess if you drove it like a grandpa.
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Darrell
Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 03-05-2011, 11:54 AM   #20
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Re: Mach Results on E85

1st Mileage report

Normal driving to and from work this week, with a few 'spirited' pulls.
16.2 MPG.

For a reference, the last time I check my mileage it was prior to going to the 4.10 gears and was on the stock tune.
So, at 3.55 gears running stock tune the MPG was 20.

I have also expected a drop of 2MPG when going to the 4.10s. Obviously another drop with E85.

I will update if any changes happen.
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Darrell
Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 07-15-2011, 10:20 AM   #21
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Long term update on fuel Mileage.

Keeping my foot out of it, I see 18MPG on a regular basis. On a pure highway trip I managed 20MPG but I was feathering the throttle the whole time and did not go above 70MPH.

When I put the hammer down, I swear you can see the gauge move. lol
My worst was 12MPG and I purposely drove it hard that hole tank, way above the recommended highway speeds and quick starts, lets just say close to 3k on the RPM scale.

So, on average the real life MPG is 16-18.
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Darrell
Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 07-17-2011, 11:44 AM   #22
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Re: Mach Results on E85

where you advised to check the ethanol content every time you fill up? I have been looking at going E85.. I am surprised that there was no need to upgrade the pump or injectors as they always say 30% more volume.. Did you get a chance to talk to the tuner how much timing he was able to add?

Anyone ever run across the article in (I think) MMFF where they took a NA mach and went e85.. they CLAIM to have gained like 30HP or the like.. It been awhile since I read it.. I read it online.. I'll look for the link,,
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Old 07-18-2011, 11:06 PM   #23
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Re: Mach Results on E85

My wife's mach has a v trim on it and 4.10s. We're getting between 16 and 19mph depending on who's driving. I get better than she does cuz she likes to hear the exhaust when going through the gears. I'm wondering what mpg we'd get with e85 and our set up. We're running 42lb injectors now. I've been told to go up to 55-60.
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Old 07-19-2011, 12:57 AM   #24
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Quote:
Originally Posted by SloSVO View Post
where you advised to check the ethanol content every time you fill up? I have been looking at going E85.. I am surprised that there was no need to upgrade the pump or injectors as they always say 30% more volume.. Did you get a chance to talk to the tuner how much timing he was able to add?

Anyone ever run across the article in (I think) MMFF where they took a NA mach and went e85.. they CLAIM to have gained like 30HP or the like.. It been awhile since I read it.. I read it online.. I'll look for the link,,
Because I live in Texas I do not have to worry about the Winter blend. I have yet to have any adverse effect on E70 vs. E85.

Yes, the MMFF article is what pushed me over the edge to give this a try. I am very happy I did so. If I recall correctly, in that article, they did not make any hardware changes, I did add a BAP for the WOT events.

(edit) I forgot to ask about how much timing he was able to add, next time I stop by I will have them pull up my records.
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Darrell
Black '04 Mach 1
Track Times (bone-stock w/drs):60 ft - 1.90 | 1/8 - 8.67
(100 shot,E85,4:10s,Street tire):60 ft - 1.67 | 1/8 - 7.88
New build - 750rwhp; not track tested (yet)
Mods: Build Log
Paint&Body
Tuned by Manny @ HPP
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Old 07-19-2011, 01:01 AM   #25
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Re: Mach Results on E85

Even with E70, the car didn't gain any more power with more timing. We ran 28 degrees of timing on one pull with the knock sensors off. And it made less power than 24 degrees of timing. At 24, and a little leaner, it made the best power.
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