Official Whipple/KB/Eaton HP/TQ/mods thread:

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by DarkMach1

Only if you got the money to build a motor if your stock went, or if this isn't your daily driver.

he really won't need the build motor if he goes with 8psi i would think, its a small hp number not to be worried, it just cost alittle money to do that, but if you got the money for sure do it.

[ASH302]

sorry didn't fully read, yea if stock goes out, pay for a build motor, it will be worth it in the end. also be less money spent in the future

[jganow]

Thanks for your help. That's what I keep hearing is that with only 8lbs and a proper tune everything should be fine. The car is not a dd. I figure I can build the motor later, but for now just keep it down. It will take a while before I can convince my wife to give me more money for a build!

From what I understand the kit has everything I would need. I was told the stock fuel pump with a boost a pump is ok up to 500rwhp.

I will post my numbers when it gets done.

[ASH302]

Originally Posted by jganow

Thanks for your help. That's what I keep hearing is that with only 8lbs and a proper tune everything should be fine. The car is not a dd. I figure I can build the motor later, but for now just keep it down. It will take a while before I can convince my wife to give me more money for a build!

From what I understand the kit has everything I would need. I was told the stock fuel pump with a boost a pump is ok up to 500rwhp.

I will post my numbers when it gets done.

i would atleast get a focus fuel pump with the BAP, the focus fuel pump is plug and play, its better than the stock one, would be wise to buy one.

[GhostRiderblk]

Stock Bottom End: Yes

PD Unit: Eaton M-112 home port

Pulley Size: 3.1 lightning upper stock lower

Fuel System: 39# Injectors, stock pump + kenne bell BAP

Tuner: SNIPER

Other Mods: lower intake minor home port, Mac Longtubes catless, mac prochamber, jlt ram air intake, weapon x coil on's

Power: 450rwhp and 480rwtq mustang dyno

[jganow]

Stock Bottom End: Yes

PD-Unit: Kenne Bell 2.1

Pulley Size: 9 pounds

Fuel System: 42# Injectors, Stock Pump + BAP

Tuner: Tim Barth, Mr Norms Garage

Other Mods: Bassani catted x, MRT Maxthunder catback

Power: 440/384. 15 degrees timing, 11.5 afr on 91.

[Tx03mach]

Stock bottom end: yes

PD unit: Heaton

Pulley size and boost level: stock pulley 7psi

Fuel system: 03 cobra fuel system

Tuner: SCT Gearhead tune

Other notable mods: shm stage 2, hooker Lt, off road x, dump flows, accufab manoblade, 3000 stall, 4.10 gears

RWHP/RWTQ: 430 rwhp / 370rwtq

[Tx03mach]

ported eaton is next it runs mid 11's right now.

[mikesly]

I'm looking for advice here.

I have 16K on my 2003 (black on black) manual, and I really love this car! I'm also in love with the 2011 Shelby, but to get one of those I'd have to trade in the Mach, and I really don't want to do that. Like someone else in this thread said, one of the reasons I love this car so much is the shaker. That just screams cool to me.

I have to believe that 550 in this car will spank those Shelbys every time, for a heck of a lot less money! I'd like to make 600, but that's probably pushing it for a stock motor - what is a reasonable number to shoot for without building the motor? (That will come later when I shoot for 800!)

I'm a firm believer in positive displacement. I installed an intercooled Whipple on my Expedition myself, and that was awesome, I really liked it. I was at a car show yesterday and I saw a Mach with a Vortech that made 631, but those just don't do it for me. I want the low and mid-range torque that you get from a PD blower.

Is the KB is the only option for keeping the shaker??? I saw a reference to modified brackets for the Whipple, but no pics.

So, first question: On a stock motor running pump gas, do I go with a Whipple or a KB or something else??? I want one that is intercooled for sure. What kind of numbers can i expect from each? I've installed a Whipple before, and that wasn't too bad at all. The instructions were pretty decent with lots of pics. How does the KB install go? Are their instructions good?

What about longevity? I've seen quite a few references to 10 and 15K on the KB with no problems. What about the Whipple? (I had 15K on mine before I sold it with no problems, summer and winter driving, so I guess I'm not too worried about Whipple. Although I did talk with Art quite a bit a few years ago about the problems they were having with belts coming off of the Mustangs. I think they re-designed the snout and the problem went away.

Second: What else do I need/do you recommend??? Drive shaft, clutch, gears, fuel tank, fuel pump, fuel rails and injectors, oilpan, larger throttle body and/or MAF, which CAI, or anything else?

Also, what size tires are you guys running? Any specific suspension mods to get the power to the ground?

Sorry for the long post, I know its a lot to ask. I have so many questions and I've found that if you want get the right answers, you have to ask the guys who have gone before you.

So I appreciate your reading this, and I'm looking forward to getting some great advice!!!

[32VALVR]

I bought the KB because I didn't have the time to piece together a used Termee setup that was complete down to the last nut/bolt and washer. If I did I would have gone that route and put a Whipple on it. The KB makes great hp and instant grunt down low, or anytime for that matter. It doesn't however make outstanding peak torque. I've had mine on for 6k @9lbs and make 486/423 unadjusted. My best time is an 11.8 @116. While I would like that extra torque your average pullied Termee or whippled Cobra does, I don't think my stock reciprocating assembly would hold any more.. especially for this long. So, on a stock Mach block I recomend the KB. Hope this helps answer your question.

[Scott McClure]

You cannot run a Whipple on a stock motor. And if you want to run a Whipple you'll need $15,000 minimum.

[vertigyn]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

You cannot run a Whipple on a stock motor. And if you want to run a Whipple you'll need $15,000 minimum.

If your goal is over 500, better start by building a new block. The stock internals cannot handle much over 500 at the wheels for long.

If you want plug and play, get the KB. If you want POWER - then you'll have to switch over to the Cobra dual belt set-up and get the non-mach KB kit or a whipple set up.

When I went with my KB, I was very happy. I did have challenges, though. My clutch started to slip more (car only had 15k miles on it), the transmission broke, I snapped a half shaft (I have an IRS swap from a Cobra), and I've cracked my differential housing twice. I had to go with an upgraded clutch from ProMotion Powertrain and a newly rebuilt Viper T-56 from ProMotion with an AL driveshaft. You might want to consider an upgraded differential as well - not a must...but a nice.

I say leave the Mach alone otherwise you'll be spending a minimum of $10k to get the kind of numbers you're looking for. If you are happy with mid 400 RWHP, then bolt on the KB...but that'll still cost you about $6.5k or so.

Personally, I wish I had been able to afford a Termi...lol Now the Mach is here to stay just because so much $$$ is in it. Eventually something with factory power will be added to the stable - but I don't want to have another Mach 1 experience like this one personally. I miss the days of reliability and being able to beat the piss out of the car with no worries. Now I beat the piss out of the car, it's a lot of fun, but something breaks every year/few thousand miles.

[TRMach1]

If you're talking 500hp at the flywheel, which is mid-400's to the rear wheels, that might be doable on an all stock motor, but a really good dyno tune is going to be a necessity!

The KB intercooled 9psi kit is a direct bolt-on. Whipple doesn't make a blower that will fit a Mach 1 without first doing an "Eaton swap."

I'm running an Aluminator, all forged crate motor with my KB 2.1 @16lbs. of boost. I upgraded the reared, rear axles, and rear suspension, but I'm still running the original TR3650 5-speed, and so far, I haven't broken it!

[mikesly]

Thanks for the input everybody.:ORANGE:

I didn't realize the Whipple wasn't a bolt on - glad to find out now rather than later!!!

I've been fighting myself all along trying to keep this stock, now it sounds like maybe that's the path I should stay on.

Either way, I still love this car

Thanks again

[03ZincMach]

Stock bottom end: Yes

PD unit: Stock Termie Eaton

Pulley size and boost level: Stock pulley ~8lb

Fuel system: Focus pump and KB BAP, stock cobra injectors.

Tuner: Gearheads Performance, Arlington TX.

Other notable mods: 4.10 gears, Bassani O/R X and catback.

RWHP/RWTQ: 433 rwhp / 439rwtq STD

[Rumplemenz]

this thread may have just cost me 5-10k.. ha... dont think i can continue life any longer without forced induction Time to step it up.. !! I have a 2001 camry that i never drive thats mechanically flawless that i can get 4-5k for... im half way there already sick

Question and some thoughts.......

KB is claiming gains of 13hp for each psi... so a 5psi kit non intercooled would produce 65 hp at the wheels... however, they claim a 01 cobra pushes out 400rwhp with the 5psi kit which surpasses the termi's output...

"Even without an intercooler, the Kenne Bell 5 psi kit (5.5 psi peak) outpowers the '03 Cobra with 8.5 psi peak boost"

if your getting gains of 13 hp at the wheels for each psi how does a 01 cobra produce 400 rwhp with only 5psi? just curious what im missing here

Im confused of their numbers b/c this just doesnt add up... I'd probably go without the intercooler to start b/c i need to start a little bit at a time.. if i just jump to the 9psi than i'll need more anyway b/c no matter how much power ya put down ya get use to it than want more anyway...

however, dropping down over 5k for 65rwhp doesnt add up for me (if im right what i said above about the 13rwhp per psi) id probably have to just spend a little more to get that over 100...

[TRMach1]

Kenne Bell speak with forked tongue, Kemo Sabe. You may want to just take all their verbal nonsense with a grain of salt. They contradict themselves alot!

One thing though, please don't even consider getting a non-intercooled twin screw blower! That's one decision you definitely will regret down the road, because these things are friggin heat pumps!

[vertigyn]

Originally Posted by TRMach1

One thing though, please don't even consider getting a non-intercooled twin screw blower! That's one decision you definitely will regret down the road, because these things are friggin heat pumps!

+1

Intercooler is a must IMO. Granted, I only drive my car to abuse it...

[Scott McClure]

Originally Posted by vertigyn

+1

Intercooler is a must IMO. Granted, I only drive my car to abuse it...

This. DO NOT put a positive displacement/twinscrew on without running an intercooler. All the power you make on the first pull on the dyno or street will go out the door when your iat temps climb over 200 degrees.

[jganow]

Originally Posted by Scott McClure

This. DO NOT put a positive displacement/twinscrew on without running an intercooler. All the power you make on the first pull on the dyno or street will go out the door when your iat temps climb over 200 degrees.

Intercooled is an absolute must. I know it costs a lot more to get the intercooled kit, but it will cost you a lot more down the road if you do the nonintercooled kit.

[03mach281]

Stock bottom end: Yes

PD unit: unported eaton

Pulley size: 3.40 upper/stock lower ~8psi

Fuel system: 60lb. injectors, Cobra tank and pumps, E85

Tuner: Andy @ Gearheads

Other mods: Longtubes, O/R X-Pipe, Bassani Catback, ported throttle body/plenum/lower intake, centerforce DF clutch, 4:10's

RWHP/RWTQ 450/405

[DarkMach1]

Originally Posted by 03mach281

Stock bottom end: Yes

PD unit: unported eaton

Pulley size: 3.40 upper/stock lower ~8psi

Fuel system: 60lb. injectors, Cobra tank and pumps, E85

Tuner: Andy @ Gearheads

Other mods: Longtubes, O/R X-Pipe, Bassani Catback, ported throttle body/plenum/lower intake, centerforce DF clutch, 4:10's

RWHP/RWTQ 450/405

You just added 60lb injectors and just ran E85?

[03mach281]

Originally Posted by DarkMach1

You just added 60lb injectors and just ran E85?

i added 60# injectors and a Boost-a-pump.

[Mudd92]

Stock bottom end: Yes

PD unit: unported eaton

Pulley size: 3.40 upper/stock lower ~9-10psi

Fuel system: Stock cobra, dual SVT Focus pumps

Tuner: Brooks Speed, Eric

Other mods: Longtubes, O/R X-Pipe, MAC Catback, 98 cobra intake cams, 3:73s

RWHP/RWTQ 465/425

[DarkMach1]

Originally Posted by 03mach281

i added 60# injectors and a Boost-a-pump.

Nice, I always thought that a line upgrade was necessary. Did you ever dyno before E85? Any gains?