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Old 06-01-2005, 09:22 PM   #1
birdman941
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BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I ordered a BBK throttle body for the 32V N/A engine from Ebay.
I think I paid like 227 for it from Brothers Performance.
I installed it on a friend's (Josh) 04 Mach, and instantly, the throttle was too stiff, the cruise control acted strangely, etc.
He drove it for a week and we swapped back today.
I put it on my 2000 Cobra powered GT and the same thing happened.
Only worse.
I have the Steeda 3 point strut tower brace, and the OD of the oval TB is a bit larger than the stock TB, so it was a near impossible feat to install the inlet hose. It literally took us hours to install the hose, finally Josh had the idea of putting the TB end of the inlet hose in boiling water to soften the plastic, and it finally did install on my 32V motor.
Right away,the throttle was stiff as all heck, and the throttle stuck closed, making it hesitate, which the engine never did before.
After a thorough road test, I had enough.
I removed the inlet hose, loosened the 2 phillips screws retaining each of the throttle blades to the shaft.
I opened and closed the throttle several times,and the sticking was gone.
Now the idle was too high. (1200 RPM and hanging)
I adjusted the hard stop slightly, and it helped somewhat.
Also, I have the IAC restrictor plate installed,so I began to think maybe I had the hole too large.
I removed and reinstalled the IAC motor with the same plate and the idle returned to normal. (Strange as no real changes were made)
I had to literally BEND the throttle bracket to relieve some of the return spring tension and give the throttle a more liveable feel.
Now for another road test:
Throttle response is much improved in ALL ranges, from a dead stop, and in every at every rpm.
The main thing I am thinking is this.
Yes, a dual 65mm TB WILL improve drivebility, but the quality of this BBK unit is extremely poor.
All of the adjustments I had to make should have been engineered into it from the beginning.
Also, the OD of the oval (where the inlet hose installs) should be EXACTLY the same, and in the same location as stock, which it is not.
Overall, it improved performance in ways I suspected it would, but BBK quality sucks.
Just my 2 cents.
Steve
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Old 06-02-2005, 10:58 AM   #2
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Wierd. I had a bbk 70 mm on my 01 gt and had no issues???? Did you contact bbk and let them know?
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:25 PM   #3
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I have also had a 70mm on a GT, but the 32V motor has the dual blade TB.
I have the Cobra crate motor and trans in My GT now, with the shaker setup. (see sig)
I am still messing with the thing to get the right pedal feel. The engine is a lot more responsive now, with a lot more grunt.
The MPG has seemed to improve, even though I have no complaints with the old TB.
(Getting about 20 mpg city)
Also just finished making another IAC restrictor as somehow the dual 65 BBK install negated some of the RPM drop with my original one.

Hows things in Orlando?
Yes we got the minivan full of Mach 1 parts unloaded, along with a few more loads since then................
Tires are fine too.
Steve
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Old 06-02-2005, 02:33 PM   #4
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

i purchased the 62mm version, and it NEVER worked!! i installed it, then the idle was fine. gave it some gas, and the throttle stuck at that rpm, gave it more gas, and it stuck at that rpm. the gas pedal felt like shiot! i didnt have any play in it at all.....took it off, put the stock one back on, then sold the 62mm....JUNK!!!!!


marek
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:15 PM   #5
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Pretty good steve. Just picked up the x-calibrator 2 and I am playing with that. You had practically a whole car in there.... Thats amazing that you made it up there lol.... Otherwise I am just trucking. I got some nittos and ran a 13.1 in 92 degree weather lol... I have almost reached the 12's. Got some better tuning and gained some power... so it shouldn't be too far away
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Old 06-02-2005, 03:22 PM   #6
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Working on the 04 Azure Blue Mach and the Body in white.
The BBK TB definitely added power but the darned thing has to be re-engineered by the customer.
Car definitely has more power though. I am just thoroughly disappointed with the quality of the unit.
I want to try an Accufab single blade but you have to get the adapter with it for the blower motor which is not needed, and its 600 bucks.
I'll get this one to work eventually, but I am shooting for 21 city MPG and 28-30 Highway with 300 RWHP.
I think it CAN be done.
The White body motor is gonna be killer.......................
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:12 PM   #7
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

wow that sucks about the c&l I can pick a polished piece up for 400
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Old 06-02-2005, 04:22 PM   #8
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Angry Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Quote:
Originally Posted by birdman941
I ordered a BBK throttle body for the 32V N/A engine from Ebay.
I think I paid like 227 for it from Brothers Performance.
I installed it on a friend's (Josh) 04 Mach, and instantly, the throttle was too stiff, the cruise control acted strangely, etc.
He drove it for a week and we swapped back today.
I put it on my 2000 Cobra powered GT and the same thing happened.
Only worse.
I have the Steeda 3 point strut tower brace, and the OD of the oval TB is a bit larger than the stock TB, so it was a near impossible feat to install the inlet hose. It literally took us hours to install the hose, finally Josh had the idea of putting the TB end of the inlet hose in boiling water to soften the plastic, and it finally did install on my 32V motor.
Right away,the throttle was stiff as all heck, and the throttle stuck closed, making it hesitate, which the engine never did before.
After a thorough road test, I had enough.
I removed the inlet hose, loosened the 2 phillips screws retaining each of the throttle blades to the shaft.
I opened and closed the throttle several times,and the sticking was gone.
Now the idle was too high. (1200 RPM and hanging)
I adjusted the hard stop slightly, and it helped somewhat.
Also, I have the IAC restrictor plate installed,so I began to think maybe I had the hole too large.
I removed and reinstalled the IAC motor with the same plate and the idle returned to normal. (Strange as no real changes were made)
I had to literally BEND the throttle bracket to relieve some of the return spring tension and give the throttle a more liveable feel.
Now for another road test:
Throttle response is much improved in ALL ranges, from a dead stop, and in every at every rpm.
The main thing I am thinking is this.
Yes, a dual 65mm TB WILL improve drivebility, but the quality of this BBK unit is extremely poor.
All of the adjustments I had to make should have been engineered into it from the beginning.
Also, the OD of the oval (where the inlet hose installs) should be EXACTLY the same, and in the same location as stock, which it is not.
Overall, it improved performance in ways I suspected it would, but BBK quality sucks.
Just my 2 cents.
Steve
Yep, purchased same twin 65mm unit, had ALL of the same problems yours did!!!! it did improve throttle response and screamed upstairs, but stuck,idled funny,and was stiff as hell!!!!!!!! called BBK they gave me the run around...... SOLD IT !!! put the stock one back on... I tried all of the same fixes you did ,including sanding the throttle body blades to get the bures off of them, helped, but not much....
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Old 06-02-2005, 05:02 PM   #9
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I am still having the issue with the idle not returning. It is hanging @ 12-1400 rpm. I am thinking that the pipe plug they put in the rear may need to be installed. I removed it on mine, or I may install it, see how it goes, and maybe drill a restrictor hole in the pipe plug if needed.
I want to figure this out once and for all.
The pedal feel is good now after I had to bend the freaking throttle hookup on the TB.
I put a restriction on BOTH sides of the IAC motor and no change. When I unplug the IAC, the idle acts normally, as before the TB was installed, but then the dreaded SES ight comes on
I am guessing the air hole that goes through the TB to relieve the pressure is letting in too much air causing the high idle.
I may also just block off the IAC with a plate w/o holes as a fix.
This stuff never happened on my 16V motor but this is apples and oranges here............
Any ideas?
Stay tuned.
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Old 06-03-2005, 10:27 AM   #10
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Well I am still working on this godforsaken BBK dual 65mm TB.
Still had some idle problems, it wouldn't return fully to idle.
I got to thinking that maybe the "hole" in the new TB was too big.
I disconnected the IAC motor as an experiment and the idle returns quickly and normally.
BUT: It turns on the SES light.
I made a new IAC restrictor plate with 2 small holes instead of one large and 1 small, and plugged the IAC mtor back in.
This made no difference. Idle still hangs or returns slowly, and won't return below 1000 RPM.
I made yet another IAC plate with NO holes in it, and it's better. The SES light does not come on, but I really don't like the idea of having the IAC bocked off. It started just fine this morning btw.
Th TB came with a pipe plug to block the "hole" in the back of the unit.
I am going to put the plug in and install the first IAC restrictor plate back in.
If that doesn't work, I plan on drilling a small hole in the pipe plug, (may have to get a brass one to drill it) and re-installing the original IAC restrictor.
Sorry to beat this up, but BBK SHOULD HAVE DONE THEIR OWN ENGINEERING on this unit in the first place.
The car is a lot more responsive than ever, and the SOTP meter says more grunt.
More later. Got to get this figured out.
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:09 AM   #11
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

good luck with it man.... Hopefully I won't have the same issue when its that time.

Roger
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:56 AM   #12
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Got it!!!
Ok here goes.
Disconnect the battery cable(s).
Its a real PITA so if you are going to put on a BBK Dual 65mm TB on your Mach or 32V 4.6, here it goes............
When you get your TB, make sure the pipe plug is NOT in the back of the unit. If it is, remove it with an allen wrench.
Before you install it on the car, adjust the hard stop (throttle opening) with a small allen key and make the throttle as much in the closed position as you can without it sticking.You will be able to "feel" it if it sticks.
If it isn't sticking, close it some more until it does stick.
Once you get that far, use a phillips screwdriver and SLIGHTLY loosen the four throttle blade screws. Just back them off a little so that there is some surface tension.
Now, open the throttle Wide open and let it slam itself shut a few times.
This will align the throttle blades with the bores in the TB,and it will save you many headaches later. Tighten the four throttle blade retaining screws to "goodentight" SAE specs. Check and see if te throttl "sticks" on initial opening. If it does, lightly adjust the hard stop, opening the throttle just a tad more until it doesn't stick.

Disconnect the throttle and cruise control cables, and disconnect the return spring. Leave the return spring hanging from the maniold bracket so it won't get lost.
Remove your stock TB. 3 - 8mm bolts, 1 - 8mm nut, and 1 - 13mm stud.
Unplug the IAC motor and the TP sensor wires.
You may or may not have to remove the shaker assembly. I didn't.
Use an impact driver type screwdriver to remove the TP (throttle position, not toilet paper) sensor from your oem TB.
You might be able to get the 2 phillips screws out using a high quality screwdriver but a K-Mart one probably won't do it, as there is Loctite on the threads from the factory.
Transfer the TP sensor to the new hrottle body. Make sure the black plastic spacer (should be included with the TB kit) is installed into the new TB where the TP sensor is installed.
Install the new throttle body using your factory bolts. The stud on the shaker bracket WILL go back on, but it rubs a little on the new TB. Its no biggie. The BBK unit comes with allen head screws, but I re-used the factory hardware.
Before you hook up the throttle cable, check and see how much tension will be on the return spring. It should only have to stretch maybe 1/4 inch after installing it. Gently bend the return spring portion of the TB throttle lever TOWARD the center of the engine until the return spring ALMOST reaches the throttle lever. Do not bend the Ford bracket on top of the intake.
If you skip that step, the throttle will be extremely hard and much too tight.
Check and see that the throttle opens smoothly from the closed to WOT position. if you feel it bind, part of the throttle lever may be contacting the intake manifold. If it is binding, gently bend the throttle lever until it is clear.
Take it easy so you don't break it. This is a BBK unit, not FRPP or Accufab.
Recheck the throttle spring tension and position. You may have to bend the throttle lever so the return spring doesn't contact anything. Sounds like a PITA but it isn't too hard.
Install your throttle and cruise control cables.
Reinstall your inlet hose. It might be very tough t fit on, as the OD of the BBK unit is a bit larger than the oem UNIT.
Go inside the car and feel the throttle. See if it's too tight, and if so, adjust the throttle lever where the return spring hooks up.
If it feels OK and there's no binding, connect the battery and start her up!!
Do not hit the throttle until it has run for several minutes and let the PCM relearn the idle strategy.
If the idle rpm is ok, blip the throttle and see how quicly it returns to idle.
If it hangs, ( but not from the cable) turn the engine off.
Disconnect the IAC motor. ( This WILL trip the SES light. No worries)
Restart the engine. If the idle is ok or a little on the low side, blip the throttle and see if it returns ok, hopefully quickly. If this is the case, make a IAC restrictor plate with 2 small (1/4") holes and install it.
When you blip the throttle, if the initial feels like it is sticking, use the allen wrench and adjust the hard stop on the TB SLIGHTLY.
Be sure to disconnect the battery to get rid of the SES light.
Reconnect the battery. Start the car and see if the SES light went out.It should not be on. If it is, make sure you plugged in the IAC motor and the TP sensor.
Take it for a drive (Notice I didn't say "SPIN").
This worked for me. This is NOT a simple bolt on excercise. This is due to, in my opinion, poor quality of the unit.
Once you make all the suggested adjustments, you should be right on, or darned close.
Mine is running stronger now. Throttle response in every gear has drastically improved, and hoping for an MPG boost.his felt like the old days when you couldn't get ANYTHING for a Ford. Had to fabricate nearly everything.
In this day and age, with the popularity of the Machs and 32V engine in general, I feel there is no excuse to have to do all this to ake a product work.
After its done, yeah its worth it. But what a PITA............
Happy Maching.
Steve
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Old 06-03-2005, 02:38 PM   #13
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

so your coming down to install mine right lol
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Old 06-03-2005, 03:21 PM   #14
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Sure.
I may have to go to Tampa anyway soon.
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Old 06-03-2005, 09:56 PM   #15
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

That's a good read Steve. You should copy BBK on this to let them know what a pain their product is. If I end up going that route I think I may go with the Accufab, that is unless you are really really bored one weekend j/k

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Old 06-03-2005, 10:47 PM   #16
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

i don't have it yet steve and I was joking. But if I ever do the beers on me lol.
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Old 06-03-2005, 11:00 PM   #17
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Nice write-up. I like your sense of humor too, "this is a BBK product, not FRRP or Accufab". ROFL!!

I've had some problems with BBKs clutch quadrant and cable, and with a bogus carbon fiber hood from Brothers (affiliated with BBK, same family I think). Both of those were junk in my opinion. I have used BBK headers on a Fox body car and they needed extensive work to clear the steering shaft, but otherwise I did like them.
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Old 06-04-2005, 12:19 AM   #18
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Thanks for your comments folks.
It has been raining here in Sunny (?) Florida for the past two days, so I have not had the opportunity to check the WOT relay. :LAUGH:
The engine is much more responsive, and previously I had absolutely no complaints with this motor. (FRPP Cobra D460 Crate Motor and trans)
It is running so smoothly, that if it weren't for the flowmasters, I would have to look at the tach to make sure it's running.
I did this excercise to improve MPG and throttle response, which it has done in spades.
Many folks seem to think that a TB on a Mach or 32V motor is a waste (not enough horsepower gain, etc.) but I can assure you, the grunt this thing has now rivals my old 5.0, and that thing was BUILT. (by me)
Mind you, my GT/Cobra/Shaker equipped car has 3.27 gears and a 5 speed.
A mach may do even better.
All I can say is, yes, this does indeed work.
There is some brain twisting to it, but overall, it's worth it.
Do not expect 10 or even 5 HP, but do expect some more low end grunt, which the 32V motor needs.
Just my 2 cents.
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Old 06-09-2005, 12:31 PM   #19
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Latest update:
I did a gas mileage run around town during the past week, no AC, short shifting, etc, and here are the results:
200.3 miles
9.368 gallons of Shell Premium
MPG = 21.38

Not too bad. I figure the TB was worth 1 MPG, as I was getting exactly 20 MPG before the Dual 65mm Throttle body was installed.
I also went to Tampa on a trip.
Averaged 26 MPG highway w/ Cruise, but I did drive around Tampa in the city for an hour or so with the AC on. I am guessing 28 highway, a little short of the goal, but I am not finished yet.
If I do a pure highway run, Ill post the numbers in case there is any interest.
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Old 06-12-2005, 01:53 PM   #20
TheBlkMach1
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I've got the twin 65mm BBK TB also and had the same problems as you. However the only thing that was done to mine to fix all the problems we had was adjusting some sort of backpressure in the TB and this caused the gas pedal to be a lot easier to control and idling was fine. I expressed all the same problems to my shop where i go to have work done on my car and they fixed it relatively easily with this simple ajustment. I'm not sure what the exact process or term used was called, but i will be talking to them on Moday (tommorow) and can find out.
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Old 06-12-2005, 02:00 PM   #21
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I know what you mean about the "backpressure".
The only thing is, the throttle stuck with the engine off also, and there was an enormous amount of pressure required to move the gas pedal.
With the engine running, I have heard where people have drilled small holes in the throttle blade to relieve the pressure.
The suction/backpressure issue is when the engine is running, where there is too much vacuum on one side of the blade.
I still may end up messing with the plug on the rear of the throttle body, and tuning the return to idle with the IAC restrictor.
For now I am about 95% happy with it, and if it EVER stops raining here in (sunny?) Florida, I may work on the final 5%.
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Streetable 404/387 26.56 MPG


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"A big engine hardly working is more efficient
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Old 06-12-2005, 02:05 PM   #22
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

I also didn't realize that the air intake tube wouldn't fit until I treid to re-attach the stock tube to the TB and saw that it wouldn't fit. I tried for quite some time before I finally gave up and put my JLT back on. I didn't try boiling the tube to soften the plastic up though. Good luck with it. I can understand your feeling on the weather since i'm in South Florida!
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Old 06-12-2005, 02:42 PM   #23
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Putting the air inlet tube end in boiling water was Josh's (mtsumedi) idea.
We also had to put some small slits in the plastic.
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Streetable 404/387 26.56 MPG


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"A big engine hardly working is more efficient
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Old 06-12-2005, 05:09 PM   #24
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

i'd be curious to see the dyno sheets and see how it helped the low end grunt...
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Old 06-12-2005, 07:05 PM   #25
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Re: BBK Dual 65mm Throttle body review

Like I said, The low end and throttle response is greatly improved.
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The ORIGINAL Project R build thread is back !

5.4 32V NA
Streetable 404/387 26.56 MPG


"I don't like repeat offenders,
I like DEAD offenders" Ted Nugent

"A big engine hardly working is more efficient
than a little engine screaming its head off" Jay Leno
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