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Old 08-14-2010, 12:00 PM   #76
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by CMEmach1 View Post
I agree falcon, I look for the next year or so to have the shaker aka the '70 Boss. I would prefer NOT to have a shaker on the Boss. It makes our cars unique and I like it that way.
+1, I like how on late model mustangs, the shaker is the Mach 1's thing. And also agree what was stated on the previous page about the decklid being blacked out. Why would ford paint the roof and spoiler, and not paint the decklid why they're at it? It would've matched '69 and would've looked better IMO. As far as graphics go, I'm glad they went with the '69 stripes over the '70, but I guess thats just personal prefernce.

Oh yeah, my Dad really wants one and said his first choice would be grabber blue with black graphics and second would be white with black graphics. He would rather have an auto just because he said he's done rowing through gears, is an auto going to be an option?
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:02 PM   #77
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by CMEmach1 View Post
I agree falcon, I look for the next year or so to have the shaker aka the '70 Boss. I would prefer NOT to have a shaker on the Boss. It makes our cars unique and I like it that way.

The car is "interesting" to me but I'm not about to run to my Ford dealer to pay 10K-20K over list just to have one of the first ones. I LOVE the original '69-'70 Boss but his car, so far seems more "Marketing" oriented to me. I don't really like the "look" of the paint everywhere...kinda a cheap/bling look IMHO.Time will tell but I'm wondering if they are going to build the **** out of them like the Shelby's. Let's face it Shelby's are like V6's....all over the place! Yes, they are a great car but not very exclusive. How many Shelbys have been built? How many Boss 302's will be built?

If the 2012 is inspired by the 1969 Boss 302 race cars, hopefully the next year's will be inspired by the 1970 Boss 302's. As far as how many will be built ..... I hope a lot as I'm interested also. The original number of 2003 Mach I's was supposed to be 5500. I bought in mid-model year and would never have got one probably if they had stuck to the original number. Hope that history repeats itself again.
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Old 08-14-2010, 12:15 PM   #78
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by CMEmach1 View Post
Time will tell but I'm wondering if they are going to build the **** out of them like the Shelby's. Let's face it Shelby's are like V6's....all over the place! Yes, they are a great car but not very exclusive. How many Shelbys have been built? How many Boss 302's will be built?
I have to disagree with the Shelby statement. I hardly ever see a Shelby unless it is a car get together. I never see them on the street.

It may be worth it to wait later in the model year for a deal on the Boss. I waited until Sept 03 to buy my Mach 1 and got a very good deal with the rebates they were offering.

I'm wondering if the Boss will be available on X-plan.
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:17 PM   #79
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

I can't afford a new car right now but I should be able to by the time the 50th anniversary comes around. I wonder what they will put out then?
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Old 08-14-2010, 04:25 PM   #80
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

Funny you should ask. I just got back from one of our local shows and there was a Ford Rep there. He specifically mentioned th e50th Anniv. ca, and it sounds like it will be something special. He also mentioned an Ecoboost 5.0. Interesting.

Bill, I thought the same thing about the shaker situation. If they make the Boss 302 a two year program and follow the '69/'70 differences for 2013 with different graphics and a shaker it would make a ton of sense.

32vFTW, I saw a Kona Blue GT today with the black graphics and I was really surprised at how lost they were on that color car. It certainly would be 'subtle'.

H-Town, I don't see a lot of Shelbys, but I do see them on the road from time to time. There were nearly as many Shelbys at the show today as there were all other Mustangs. From a '68 KR to an '11 GT500 FRPP 'vert there were a lot of snake embossed cars there.

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Old 08-14-2010, 05:00 PM   #81
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

I much prefer the 70 version Boss to the 69, but I would have no problem owning either one. I like the new Boss, but if I were able to own one I would paint the roof the same as the body color.
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Old 08-14-2010, 06:00 PM   #82
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

This car doesn't need a shaker. God knows there's too many S197's running around with those now (especially considering they're available as a dealer option now). This car should be all function, and that's what it is. Adding baubles like window slats and hood scoops if too gimicky IMO. I don't care for some of the color options, but I think I'll be perfectly happy with Performance White with the black trims. The Leguna Seca LE sounds badazz, but I don't see myself spending the extra bucks for it. I kinda like having a backseat.

I've finally found the Mustang that's going to convince me to sell my 05, and this is the SE model that I've been waiting for since the end of 04. I can't wait.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:36 PM   #83
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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If the 2012 is inspired by the 1969 Boss 302 race cars, hopefully the next year's will be inspired by the 1970 Boss 302's. As far as how many will be built ..... I hope a lot as I'm interested also. The original number of 2003 Mach I's was supposed to be 5500. I bought in mid-model year and would never have got one probably if they had stuck to the original number. Hope that history repeats itself again.
The original build # was 6500. Sorry Bill, I wish they stuck to the 6500 and only built the mach in '03. I still hold a grudge and feel like Ford lied to me.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:09 PM   #84
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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The original build # was 6500. Sorry Bill, I wish they stuck to the 6500 and only built the mach in '03. I still hold a grudge and feel like Ford lied to me.
Kurt, I was going by the originial news release which said 5500 (http://www.mach1registry.com/news/2003Mach.htm). Later it was bumped to 6500 and then they actually built 9652 in 2003.

Something similar happened in 1978 with the silver and black pace Car Corvettes. They were only supposed to build 500 or so but demand was so great from dealerships that by the end of the year 1 out of every 7 Corvettes built that year was a Pace Car. People paid big bucks early to get one and put them away in plastic. They lost their butts when they tried to sell them 5 and 10 years later. Their only real value was the zero mileage some had.

Kurt, you're like me, you ain't got enough years left on this planet to to have your Mach be worth much more than Kelly Bluebook, anyways.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:11 PM   #85
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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I have to disagree with the Shelby statement. I hardly ever see a Shelby unless it is a car get together. I never see them on the street.
OK, so maybe they aren't as available as a V6 but if you go to car shows you see a lot of Shelby's. I see them on the street fairly often.....much more than Mach1's. They have made a lot of Shelby's and it's not as "Special" as they should be, IMHO.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:25 PM   #86
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Kurt, you're like me, you ain't got enough years left on this planet to to have your Mach be worth much more than Kelly Bluebook, anyways.
HaHaHa I agree Bill, The way prices on mach's have been going the Kelly Bluebook has been behind the curve! Every time I turn around the mach's are cheaper and cheaper.

Bill, I am glad for the brotherhood we have been able to enjoy as mach1 owners. If Ford honored their original build # I wouldn't have met people like you and for that I am grateful.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:18 AM   #87
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by CMEmach1 View Post
OK, so maybe they aren't as available as a V6 but if you go to car shows you see a lot of Shelby's. I see them on the street fairly often.....much more than Mach1's. They have made a lot of Shelby's and it's not as "Special" as they should be, IMHO.
I have the opposite here. We only live 1 hour apart and as far as I've seen, I have the only '10 GT500 in my area. I see a few 07-09s, but no 2010s. Also from Pottstown to King of Prussia & then in the Reading area I see quite a few Machs. 1-2 Azure Blues, 2 Torch Reds, 1-2 Black & 1 Competition Orange. I've been seeing A LOT of 03-04 Cobras lately, but no 10th Anniv like I used to have.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:43 AM   #88
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

I never see other machs in albany there are about 8 or 9 that I have seen. I have only seen 2 other mach1s in my home town in the last 8 years......

I saw one in the place were I work it was a 04 I have only seen them driving down the road a handful of times.

I see GT500s all of the time when i am out on my KingPin but never a mach1...

I was at a mustang show last summer it drew 300 cars 3 machs
1 03 mine and 2 04s.

I know there is only about 3 03s in the area the rest i have seen are 04s.
With allot of them getting totaled in the last 8 years they are getting less and less and seeing one in pristine condition like mine I only know of 1 other in the area that is kept up if the kid did not sell it allready.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:16 AM   #89
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

Of the ones shown, orange looks like the best combination of color and contrasting stripes/color. If red has the black, then it would also look sharp.

I also kind of like the black. Silver and blue....not so much, though I might change my mind with more pictures or seeing them on the road(particularly the blue).

Not a fan of the orange wheels, but that can easily be changed.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:54 AM   #90
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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They're..um..colored...

Seriously, the Team Shelby '69 Boss 302 Trans Am cars (say that 3 times fast) had a white roof on a blue car, although the sides were actually red.
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:03 PM   #91
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

When and If I ever get one. I really dont mind any color combinations except the silver. Im more thinking Id like this car for the sure reason of the performance aspects they have added and also being a SE Mustang
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Old 08-15-2010, 12:40 PM   #92
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by Berzerk View Post
I have the opposite here. We only live 1 hour apart and as far as I've seen, I have the only '10 GT500 in my area. I see a few 07-09s, but no 2010s. Also from Pottstown to King of Prussia & then in the Reading area I see quite a few Machs. 1-2 Azure Blues, 2 Torch Reds, 1-2 Black & 1 Competition Orange. I've been seeing A LOT of 03-04 Cobras lately, but no 10th Anniv like I used to have.
Interesting, I work in the Reading to Douglasville To Pottstown To Phoenixville area every day. We do infrastructure work so we are on the roadways all day and I hardly ever see a mach1 but I see Shelbys every week.

My point is how many Shelbys have been made?
How many BOSS 302's are they planning on producing?
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:09 PM   #93
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by CMEmach1 View Post
Interesting, I work in the Reading to Douglasville To Pottstown To Phoenixville area every day. We do infrastructure work so we are on the roadways all day and I hardly ever see a mach1 but I see Shelbys every week.

My point is how many Shelbys have been made?
How many BOSS 302's are they planning on producing?
There are 5 years worth of Shelbys on the road right now. Who knows what Ford will do with the Boss 302. I would guess at least 2 years (10k per year) until Mustang's 50th when Ford will bring back the Mustang Cobra II.
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Old 08-15-2010, 01:18 PM   #94
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

The more I read about the two version the more I wonder how far the Laguna Seca car is from the '00 Cobra R in spirit as well as in execution? The LS has more power than the R, from a smaller but more technologically advance engine. Both have track oriented suspensions, but I suspect the LS will be more street friendly. The LS will have A/C (at least I haven't read otherwise), unlike the R. I'd love to see a test between the two in a head to head competition between stock versions both on the street and on the track.

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Old 08-15-2010, 04:40 PM   #95
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

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Originally Posted by falcongtho3 View Post
The more I read about the two version the more I wonder how far the Laguna Seca car is from the '00 Cobra R in spirit as well as in execution? The LS has more power than the R, from a smaller but more technologically advance engine. Both have track oriented suspensions, but I suspect the LS will be more street friendly. The LS will have A/C (at least I haven't read otherwise), unlike the R. I'd love to see a test between the two in a head to head competition between stock versions both on the street and on the track.

The LS should easily manhandle the R. Better track chassis combined with what should be a lighter curb weight. Should also have better front to rear weight ratio too. The R should still feel like more of a raw racer though. The LS will definitely feel more refined in comparison.

Here's some more interesting info that I saw posted in another forum.

"2012 Ford Mustang Boss 302 engine delivers 440 horsepower and 380 ft.-lbs. of torque without the aid of forced induction
Purpose-built Boss engine is based on production 2011 Mustang GT 5.0-liter DOHC V8, heavily modified with unique, Boss-specific parts to withstand all-day thrashing
Revised intake, CNC-machined heads, lightened valvetrain and strengthened reciprocating assembly result in a race-proven engine meeting production durability standards
MONTEREY, Calif., Aug. 13, 2010 – The all-new 5.0-liter dual-overhead camshaft (DOHC) V8 in the 2011 Mustang GT already is the most powerful naturally aspirated production V8 Ford has ever produced. To make it worthy of the Boss name, Ford engineers tweaked more than a few bits of the engine.

They reengineered an entire dynamometer cell to handle the engine’s projected 7,500 rpm redline; put the first engines into Boss 302R race cars and sent them straight onto the track; and they designed a torture test equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times – in a row.

Only when the 440-hp V8 passed these tests, ensuring maximum power output without sacrificing durability, reliability and drivability, was it worthy of being called a Boss.

Bulletproof and blower-free

Planning began with a small group of engineers within the 5.0-liter V8 team. Starting with open minds and enlisting the help of two members of the original 1969 Boss 302 design team, the group began working its way toward the ultimate evolution of the new 5.0-liter: 440 horsepower and 380 lb.-ft. of torque, along with a broad, flat output curve all the way through its projected 7,500 rpm redline.

The Mustang team knew a supercharger would be the simplest way to extract significant power improvements from the new 5.0-liter V8, but they elected not to pursue forced induction for the 2012 Boss to stay true to the original Boss 302 engine.

“The core group of engineers on the Boss 302 engine understands and respect the heritage of the name and the history behind the original engine,” explains Mike Harrison, Ford V8 engine program manager. “The first Boss 302 was a specially built, free-breathing, high-revving small V8 that gave it certain desirable characteristics on a race course – and we capture that essence in the new engine.”

The team also realized the additional hardware meant more weight, the bane of any racing program and the opposite of what the Boss design team was attempting to achieve. Instead, the same technology that has made the new Mustang GT engine such a formidable force was applied to the Boss 302.

“In keeping with the spirit of the original, the new Boss 302 engine achieves its maximum power output at speeds at or above 7,500 rpm,” says Harrison. “Unlike the original engine, however, low-speed torque and driveability are uncompromised thanks to twin independent variable camshaft timing (Ti-VCT) technology and computer-aided engineering design tools.”

Harrison and his team began exploring Boss 302 concepts starting with the engine’s ability to breathe – essential to the production of horsepower. Because credible track performance requires high power production between 5,000 rpm and 7,000 rpm, the team needed a new approach to intake manifold design.

Borrowing from the Ford Daytona Prototype engines, the resulting short-runners-in-the-box design virtually eliminates lag when the throttle is snapped open while producing peak power output at high rpm.

“The effect of the new intake design is dramatic,” says Harrison. “When I took the prototype car to Mustang Chief Engineer Dave Pericak, he took a short drive, tossed me the keys and said ‘Book it…it’s in the program.’ He knew what we were onto, and that’s really the point where the Boss 302 was born.”

To take advantage of the racing intake manifold, cylinder head airflow was fully optimized by CNC porting the entire intake and exhaust port and combustion chamber. The painstaking machining process takes 2.5 hours per head to complete.

To accompany the higher peak-power engine speed, the team had to engineer a lightweight, high-speed valvetrain and bulletproof reciprocating assembly that would not only hold together for 150,000-plus miles but also produce power at peak rpm.

“What most people don’t realize is that engine stresses increase exponentially as engine speeds rise,” explains Harrison. “So moving up from GT’s 7,000 rpm redline required significant re-engineering of many different parts. Sacrificing reliability and usability over the GT engine was never an option.”

Some of the Boss-specific parts contributing to the Boss 302 V8’s output and durability include:
Revised composite intake system with shorter runners, inspired by Daytona Prototype racing engines, for high-rpm breathing
Forged aluminum pistons and upgraded sinter-forged connecting rods for improved strength, needed for the higher combustion pressures and engine speeds
New high-strength aluminum-alloy cylinder heads with fully CNC-machined ports and chambers for exceptional high-rpm airflow without sacrificing low-speed torque
Lightened valvetrain components to provide excellent dynamic performance up to speeds well above the engine redline
Sodium-filled exhaust valves for improved heat dissipation
Race-specification crankshaft main and rod bearings for higher load capability and improved high-speed durability
5W50 full-synthetic oil with engine oil cooler for improved oil pressure and longer-lasting lubrication during extreme racing conditions
Revised oil pan baffling for improved oil control under racing conditions and during cornering loads greater than 1.0 g

Close connection with race teams

Contrary to normal engine development protocol, the first batch of durability test engines weren’t installed in an engine dyno. Instead, thanks to a request from Ford Racing, they went straight to the track.

“Ford Racing had challenged the Boss engine team to give them the first available Boss 302 engines,” explains Harrison. “They came to us in August 2009 and told us they needed engines as soon as possible to build a limited number of Ford Racing Boss 302R cars for the January Daytona race. They got the engines 12 weeks later and the team got five Boss 302R cars prepped for the January race. This gave us a fantastic opportunity to be able to get full-on race experience with the engine so early in the program.”

The Boss engines have run reliably all season without a single mechanical failure. Boss 302R cars have also racked up the most laps led so far this season in Grand-Am racing.

Using race telemetry, the Boss team has been able to gather on-track data to help optimize engine calibrations, oil pan designs and cooling. In order to engage in virtual racing whenever they needed, the team used the telemetry data to re-create a hot lap at Daytona on the dyno back in Dearborn, allowing further fine-tuning.

“Working with Ford Racing has been invaluable,” said Harrison. “They were a wealth of information for setting up torque and power curves for road racing and for identifying areas of concern during track runs that we wouldn’t have considered if we were just building a hot street engine. Every Boss 302 owner will benefit from their contributions to the program.”

Production engine durability testing

Despite its racing heritage – and the rigors of track-day testing – the Boss 302 V8 is still a production Ford engine, built alongside the 5.0-liter GT engine at Essex Engine Plant in Ontario, Canada. That means it has to meet or exceed all the standard durability testing every Ford engine is required to complete.

The high-winding engine presented a challenge: The engine had no trouble staying together at its redline, but the Ford durability dynamometers weren’t designed to operate at the speeds the Boss engine was capable of.

“Ford had no engine test cells built to run at that kind of sustained speed,” said Harrison. “Ford Racing had one, but it wasn’t instrumented to do production durability testing. So we had to re-engineer the dyno cell with new balancers and jackshafts so the dyno wouldn’t fly apart running at redline hour after hour.”

Once an adequate test stand was configured, the Boss engine was run at its full rated output for tens of millions of cycles, eventually outperforming its specifications at every stage of testing. Engineers calculated that the test regimen was equivalent to running the Daytona 250 race flat-out more than 175 times – in a row.

Team members also devised an additional durability test specific to the Boss 302 engine – one that reflects the unique demands of Boss drivers. The engine was subjected to a regimen simulating 1,500 quarter-mile races typical of events at drag strips across the country.

“Even though the production Boss engine is designed to be very close to a full race engine, it had to achieve the same vehicle durability signoff any other production engine requires,” says Harrison. “Then it went on to get the track durability test signoff too. It’s really an engineering accomplishment that a Boss owner can thrash his car on the track and still expect the same outstanding reliability that the owner of a regular Mustang GT will enjoy.”


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Old 08-15-2010, 06:23 PM   #96
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

So it's got forged internals.....awesome! I bet it'll be a monster with a 150 shot of nitrous!!!
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:28 PM   #97
03BumbleBee
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

Wow Firebreed05, that was mouthful of information. For those who might think it is a decal and emblem car, should read this post.
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:50 PM   #98
Rustangin
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

I smell another Ford Racing Crate Motor in the near future!!!
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:19 PM   #99
CMEmach1
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

Quote:
Originally Posted by H-TownMachI View Post
There are 5 years worth of Shelbys on the road right now. Who knows what Ford will do with the Boss 302. I would guess at least 2 years (10k per year) until Mustang's 50th when Ford will bring back the Mustang Cobra II.
, No say it ain't so! not the Mustang Cobra II
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:24 PM   #100
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Re: 2012 Boss 302

Quote:
Originally Posted by 03BumbleBee View Post
Wow Firebreed05, that was mouthful of information. For those who might think it is a decal and emblem car, should read this post.
I agree!
Now, maybe I can put one of those in my '87 LX when FRPP has it as a crate engine...... in 2025 when the price comes down to where I can afford it.
Sounds like a Awesome engine!
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