disappointing dyno numbers

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by na svt

The pistons, rods, and cranks that they buy are made to their specs, but they don't weigh the individual parts prior to installation. I was told that they are within tolerences. They do not balance each assembly to ensure it is balanced.

Plus 1 - when the pistons are drop shipped from New Jersey and the crank is shipped from California thats a good indicator that the balance job was done with whatever spec was written on the outside of the piston box.

I have never seen a single measuring device in any picture MMR has posted. I have also never seen a mark on the bearings from a bore gauge being used so either they are plasti-gaging the crank (which is a joke for an engine builder) or they are crossing their fingers the bearings in the box are correct.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by nickmckinney

Plus 1 - when the pistons are drop shipped from New Jersey and the crank is shipped from California thats a good indicator that the balance job was done with whatever spec was written on the outside of the piston box.

I have never seen a single measuring device in any picture MMR has posted. I have also never seen a mark on the bearings from a bore gauge being used so either they are plasti-gaging the crank (which is a joke for an engine builder) or they are crossing their fingers the bearings in the box are correct.

I saw this in person, no torque wrenches and no checking of journal diameters or bearing clearances. They did check ring gaps but all rings were checked in the same cylinder rather than the ones they were being installed. I can guarantee that their race engines do not get this same "lack of care". This to me is totally unacceptable.

Order a balanced rotating assembly and you'll get parts that are dropped shipped from around the country. My friends stroker kit came with no rod bearings...shouldn't they be weighed and considered in the balancing process? Furthermore, you cannot order a non-balanced assembly at a lower price if you want to take care of the balancing yourself.

[Roy]

Originally Posted by nickmckinney

Plus 1 - when the pistons are drop shipped from New Jersey and the crank is shipped from California thats a good indicator that the balance job was done with whatever spec was written on the outside of the piston box.

I have never seen a single measuring device in any picture MMR has posted. I have also never seen a mark on the bearings from a bore gauge being used so either they are plasti-gaging the crank (which is a joke for an engine builder) or they are crossing their fingers the bearings in the box are correct.

Maybe they are one of those internet "smoke and mirrors"
companys kinda like a cylinder head shop that cant even do a valve job because the dont have a machine to do it with.

[na svt]

Originally Posted by Roy

Maybe they are one of those internet "smoke and mirrors"
companys kinda like a cylinder head shop that cant even do a valve job because the dont have a machine to do it with.

I don't see farming out serdi valve jobs being a problem since the equipment will run $75k. The costs are kept down by keeping overhead low. If the work is guaranteed there's no problem with that arrangement.

[Roy]

Originally Posted by na svt

I don't see farming out serdi valve jobs being a problem since the equipment will run $75k. The costs are kept down by keeping overhead low. If the work is guaranteed there's no problem with that arrangement.

With this economy you can buy nice used serdi's or Sunnen guide and seat machines for under 30K. If cant swing that you shouldn’t be in business. When not having his own machines leads to a nightmare like I had with him its a issue. I cant beleive he's on here bashing another business. Dealing with Modular Headshop was a joke. After 3 months of one bullshlt story after another I was just gald to get a refund. After hearing about some of his porting Im glad he couldnt produce the heads. All he had to do was replace the exhaust seats and do half of a valve job (less than two days work) and after 3 months and one promise after another he had nothing.

[Flash88]

crazy how 3 letters start so much around here.

[Roy]

Sorry for the high jack. Your short block should be fine. All there is is displacement, compression rattio, and ring seal. Im sure all three are fine with yours. Dyno's are goofy. Maybe the first time is was a little high and and this time a little low. A drag strip comparison is what counts. If it doesnt pick up there it may be the weight of the steel block. But like you said now your ready for a bunch of nitrous or a ton of boost.

[Flash88]

Yea, the track is what is more important to me. My friend mickey thompson will help me out there.

[Nastynate_]

I had an Mmr stroker kit and it too ran like crap!! Ditched it and had hpp in lewisville redo everything with comp cams and stage 3 headwork and she made 409 n/a
And I was right there watching it was badass!!!

[nickmckinney]

Serdi are a nightmare to get a good used one, Sunnen had stopped producing any parts for their seat and guide machine years ago so thats for sure a no go. You can learn the real truth on seat and guide machines on the machine shop forum. 30-50K is a good seat and guide machine cost with the tooling (tooling costs near as much as the machine), then you need a CBN/PCD surfacer, lathe, mill, tumbler, tig welder, mig welder, etc. So you can double to triple that 30K cost minimum.

As for not having machines that is an itch that is getting scratched as we speak. I am laying out the cash equivalent to a nice condo on the beach to have machines on site that will get maybe 8 hours of use a week combined. Not too bad for a "side" business that originally started after the 2008 market dump to just do a set of heads a month to pay for the race car.

Tymensky and Papitto never had their own machines and how many records did they set.

I agree on the delay time issues and take full responsibility for it. You got a refund as you requested, someone else will own a nice set of heads, and I got really motivated to move all jobs completely in house. Lesson learned on my end thats for sure.

BTW - try getting engine specific machine financing these days with so many shops going under, thats been a tougher nut to crack than me getting the work done elsewhere in a timely manner.

As for MMR, I stand by what I said about never seeing a measuring instrument in any picture they have posted, and how the parts are drop shipped from different places. No bashing involved with that statement, its just the simple truth at the moment.

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by Roy

After hearing about some of his porting Im glad he couldnt produce the heads. All he had to do was replace the exhaust seats and do half of a valve job (less than two days work) and after 3 months and one promise after another he had nothing.

So if you heard the porting was bad (obviously you have never seen it yourself first hand by your own statement) why did you place a $3K plus order?

All the detailed and close up pictures of my portwork on are online, at least I have the cahonas to show them up close like that. You must have liked them at one time to drop the cash for a set. Sorry it didn't work out but you got a refund, so now who is doing the bashing about a product they admittedly have never seen before?

[Roy]

Originally Posted by nickmckinney

Serdi are a nightmare to get a good used one, Sunnen had stopped producing any parts for their seat and guide machine years ago so thats for sure a no go. You can learn the real truth on seat and guide machines on the machine shop forum. 30-50K is a good seat and guide machine cost with the tooling (tooling costs near as much as the machine), then you need a CBN/PCD surfacer, lathe, mill, tumbler, tig welder, mig welder, etc. So you can double to triple that 30K cost minimum.

As for not having machines that is an itch that is getting scratched as we speak. I am laying out the cash equivalent to a nice condo on the beach to have machines on site that will get maybe 8 hours of use a week combined. Not too bad for a "side" business that originally started after the 2008 market dump to just do a set of heads a month to pay for the race car.

never had their own machines and how many records did they set.

I agree on the delay time issues and take full responsibility for it. You got a refund as you requested, someone else will own a nice set of heads, and I got really motivated to move all jobs completely in house. Lesson learned on my end thats for sure.

BTW - try getting engine specific machine financing these days with so many shops going under, thats been a tougher nut to crack than me getting the work done elsewhere in a timely manner.

As for MMR, I stand by what I said about never seeing a measuring instrument in any picture they have posted, and how the parts are drop shipped from different places. No bashing involved with that statement, its just the simple truth at the moment.

So you have no equipment at all? You didn’t seem to have any parts either.

Why do you need "motivation" to do the work that people send you? Why couldn’t you find some motivation and do my stuff? What was the real reason you couldn’t do 2 days work in a quarter of a year? Why did the story always change? I bought the heads yoo had for sale on your website that were already ported and had time serts and wanted better valves and exhaust seat installed. When I called to see how the heads were coming you said you were porting them. WTF weren’t they already ported when I bought them from you? Then all of a sudden they didn’t have time serts anymore. WTF again. Why did you send me a paypal request for the final payment when the heads were no closer to being done as when I bought them from you 2 1/2 months earlier?

Why would I give a shlt about records someone else set?

We incorporated in 1999 and if I operated like you I wouldn’t have made it a year.

[Roy]

Originally Posted by nickmckinney

So if you heard the porting was bad (obviously you have never seen it yourself first hand by your own statement) why did you place a $3K plus order?

All the detailed and close up pictures of my portwork on are online, at least I have the cahonas to show them up close like that. You must have liked them at one time to drop the cash for a set. Sorry it didn't work out but you got a refund, so now who is doing the bashing about a product they admittedly have never seen before?

Because like an idiot I got sucked into a typical smoke and mirrors internet company.

[ModularSpeed]

I installed an MMR shortblock in a car, and I must say I am impressed. (I installed it years ago, and it STILL actually runs!)

It's the smokinest thing I ever saw. From the minute it started up until 15k miles later....that sum bich smokes like a freight train.

The cool part is....it is the "budget" shortblock with a cast crank....and it makes 600 rwhp all day long. Hell, if it didn't smoke so bad it may make 650+!

Said shortblock has seen two sets of heads...and smoke was same. I cannot remember the compression numbers, but they are awesome! (sarcasm)


Anyhow...

[rich1]

Originally Posted by Roy

Because like an idiot I got sucked into a typical smoke and mirrors internet company.

Youre not the alone...There seems to be alot of the old bait and switch going on internet sites these days.. You know they show you what you are supposed to be buying ,and it looks great .But by the time it gets to your house its not even close . I only say this to support youre concerns since I have seen the work you have done for me.I know what youre standards are,its a shame that others cant even be motivated by the fees they charge.

[Roy]

They never made it to my house. I doubt the heads ever existed.

[rich1]

Originally Posted by Roy

They never made it to my house. I doubt the heads ever existed.

Dam... thats even worse ...

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by Roy

So you have no equipment at all? You didn’t seem to have any parts either.

Why do you need "motivation" to do the work that people send you? Why couldn’t you find some motivation and do my stuff? What was the real reason you couldn’t do 2 days work in a quarter of a year? Why did the story always change? I bought the heads yoo had for sale on your website that were already ported and had time serts and wanted better valves and exhaust seat installed. When I called to see how the heads were coming you said you were porting them. WTF weren’t they already ported when I bought them from you? Then all of a sudden they didn’t have time serts anymore. WTF again. Why did you send me a paypal request for the final payment when the heads were no closer to being done as when I bought them from you 2 1/2 months earlier?

Why would I give a shlt about records someone else set?

We incorporated in 1999 and if I operated like you I wouldn’t have made it a year.

Let me answer in the order received:

I currently have all the equipment except a floating head seat and guide and a CBN surfacer. Those combined cost $60K, will take up another bay of shop space at $1K a month, and combined account for a whopping 4hrs average a week of labor needed unless its a radical replace all the seats job. Other than they will sit idle trying to rust and collecting dust. I figure its going to be about $300 a week out of my pocket more than what I pay someone else to do this work not counting my labor to bring these last ones in, but the cost of not being delayed will be priceless.

I have a good bit of parts on the shelves, we average ~5 boxes a day getting on the brown trucks currently.

I don't need motivation to work, I average 60hrs a week. I stated I got motivated to get the rest of the machines in house quickly rather than depend on outside shops.

2 days work is correct, other issue was 10 other "Roys" worth of work I was waiting on as well. You were not the only "Roy" at the outside shop, I tried to get them to move it along, they were not able to do so (hence my new found motivation).

The heads were 03 castings I so assumed 5 thread and listed that I would install Timeserts. Once I pulled them off the shelf I found they were 9 thread, and you said that was fine and to discount the price for not installing Timeserts (it was your choice).

I incorporated after the financial meltdown of 2008, its a different world now to start a fresh company much less one involved in a dying trade. There is very little financing available anymore, so you have to start with much less than what was possible in 1999 when both the economy and banking system were much better. you started during a boom, I started in what would have been a depression if the gov didn't go 1 trillion into debt yearly to bail out the system.

I understand you are pissed, I am too. Crap like this doesn't work for you or me. Every business has to deal with problems, I am dealing with this one (though not quickly enough but that is out of my hands at the moment)

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by Roy

They never made it to my house. I doubt the heads ever existed.

They are currently chillin on a shelf wrapped in plastic bags. Complete other than no springs installed though as I will leave that up to whoever will own them.

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by Roy

Because like an idiot I got sucked into a typical smoke and mirrors internet company.

Sorry I don't smoke, and the mirror is only telling me that I am getting more grays lately.

[nickmckinney]

Originally Posted by na svt

I don't see farming out serdi valve jobs being a problem since the equipment will run $75k. The costs are kept down by keeping overhead low. If the work is guaranteed there's no problem with that arrangement.

I also farm out someone else to make the bronze guides, make the SS valves to my spec, and make the springs. I would be a fool to think to make those myself, and every one of them has had a bigger delay that my farming out Serdi work. Every business has to farm out work and depend on other businesses, at what point does it make sense to do it in house is the question. I am looking to come out of pocket to bring the Serdi work in house, if it could be done in a timely manner elsewhere then I would be a fool to lose money doing that in house.

[Roy]

Yeah I guess it makes no sense at all for a cylinder head shop to be able to do a valve job. It makes sense to expect delays when you rely on a hobbiest with no equipment to do heads for you. Everything you just posted is just more of your bullshlt. I should have done my research on Modular Head Shop before this happened instead of after. Another thing I wanted to ask you is why did you generate a shipping lable with UPS so I would get a shipping notifacation when no heads were ready to be shipped?
I took a pair of castings down to Fox Lake Racing and in less than 3 weeks they got CNC ported, bronze guides, new seats and valves for about the same money you get. What a professional place they were to deal with.

[Roy]

How could you possibly say you wouldnt use a S&G machine much? Thats just plain stupid. Every set of heads you do gets a valve job. You told me you do 10-12 sets of heads a month. Thats a lot of valve jobs. DOHC heads make for even more. For a cylinder head shop to say doing valve jobs is a waste of their time is a joke. A few posts up you listed all the equipment besides the S&G machine that you would need and it would double the cost. Now you say you have all the other equipment you need. Typical of what I put up with for 3 months.