NASCAR thread

[Azure Blurr]

Originally Posted by ylopony

I don't think for a second that either driver is part of what happen. Crews work on the car and the drivers drive the thing. I don't think they(crew) were trying to cheat anymore than Dale Jr's team was trying to cheat a few weeks ago. Some of this stuff is so fine that it needs to be measured with a micrometer. Now jet fuel in the intake is another matter.

With the COT the rules are so vague right now that teams unfortunately learn how Nascar is going to define them at that particular moment. With that said, if they nailed jr and penalized him they should do the same to both the #24 and the #48 car.

But how did I know you were going to come to their defense?

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by AZURE GIRL

But how did I know you were going to come to their defense?

I guess I'm a bit to predictible.

As a fan of those two cars it's tough see this. As for the #5 car, don't crush the car, just the driver. I want that car intact for Jr. next year. I can't wait till next year with another of my favorite drivers joining the team.

[falcongtho3]

Originally Posted by AZURE GIRL

But how did I know you were going to come to their defense?

Your psycho...er, psychic powers are really coming on line now! Good work Azure Swami.


[ylopony]"As a fan of those two cars it's tough see this. As for the #5 car, don't crush the car, just the driver. I want that car intact for Jr. next year. I can't wait till next year with another of my favorite drivers joining the team."

I do want to know what the heck Kelloggs is going to do now that they've been pretty much booted from a car they've been sponsoring for years? Jr., Sony?...baloney!

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by ylopony

I don't think for a second that either driver is part of what happen. Crews work on the car and the drivers drive the thing. I don't think they(crew) were trying to cheat anymore than Dale Jr's team was trying to cheat a few weeks ago. Some of this stuff is so fine that it needs to be measured with a micrometer. Now jet fuel in the intake is another matter.

I believe that they drivers may not have performed the work, but I'm willing to bet that they had knowledge of what was done. Cheating is the way of life in NASCAR. Every competitive team out there attempts to be "creative" with the rulebook. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they get caught. Once other teams figure out what the most successful teams are getting away with, they start doing the same thing and it becomes standard practice...unless NASCAR catches on and makes a rule change.

Originally Posted by ylopony

With the COT the rules are so vague right now that teams unfortunately learn how Nascar is going to define them at that particular moment. With that said, if they nailed jr and penalized him they should do the same to both the #24 and the #48 car.

The rules on the COT are even more defined than before. Teams are attempting to be "creative" with "gray areas" that aren't as gray as they thought. NASCAR works closely with the teams to help them build their cars to conform to the rules so that the cars that arrive at the track are legal. They are trying to eliminate the amount of "creativity" that gets to the track.

I do agree with you that they need to be consistent in their rulings, maybe even increasing the penalties this week to show other teams that NASCAR is not kidding...they said that they are clamping down on cheating, but I'll believe it when I see it.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by 04VAMach1

I believe that they drivers may not have performed the work, but I'm willing to bet that they had knowledge of what was done. Cheating is the way of life in NASCAR. Every competitive team out there attempts to be "creative" with the rulebook. Sometimes they get away with it and sometimes they get caught. Once other teams figure out what the most successful teams are getting away with, they start doing the same thing and it becomes standard practice...unless NASCAR catches on and makes a rule change.

The rules on the COT are even more defined than before. Teams are attempting to be "creative" with "gray areas" that aren't as gray as they thought. NASCAR works closely with the teams to help them build their cars to conform to the rules so that the cars that arrive at the track are legal. They are trying to eliminate the amount of "creativity" that gets to the track.

I do agree with you that they need to be consistent in their rulings, maybe even increasing the penalties this week to show other teams that NASCAR is not kidding...they said that they are clamping down on cheating, but I'll believe it when I see it.

I agree with you to a point about the rules. However, these teams don't really know what is allowed with the cot. If there is one to many coats of wax the car is deemed illegal. Nascar needs to come up with clearly defined rules and regulations that are allowed to be done. This would eliminate any gray areas. The offense from Hendricks and DEI were so minor in measurements, none of them were extreme. However, the rules are the rules.

As for increasing the penalty this week I would not agree with that even if it were Kurt Busch or Tony Stewart, or even a Toyota. 100 points and a 4-6 week suspension and a 100k fine to the crew chief and owner is extremly severe.

Perhaps what Nascar should do each week is have their own crews work on the cars. Then the driver and the pit crew show up get their car drive it and change the tires and put fuel in it, no work, no nothing. Why not, as it is now Nascar is already getting somewhat pathetic lately.

[02mach1]

The Fords 1 and 2 for the race this weekend!:HOPPY:

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by ylopony

Perhaps what Nascar should do each week is have their own crews work on the cars. Then the driver and the pit crew show up get their car drive it and change the tires and put fuel in it, no work, no nothing. Why not, as it is now Nascar is already getting somewhat pathetic lately.

I keep thinking that NASCAR is becoming more and more like IROC.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by 04VAMach1

I keep thinking that NASCAR is becoming more and more like IROC.

It seems to be what Nascar is becoming more and more. As for the alleged cheating:



Reports have continuously said that the fenders FIT the templates, barely touching a couple spots and that is WASN'T cheating, NASCAR just felt that they had worked the gray area in which there IS NO RULE.

Nascar should clearly state in the rules, this is the fender, bumper, spoiler, splitter, wax, windshield cleaner, and etc etc. Change nothing, don't work on anything.

What Kurt Busch and Tony Stewart did a few weeks ago is a bigger issue than what DEI and Hendricks have done. It's always been about trying to squeeze everything out of the car that you can, minus playing with the restrictor plate, adding rocket fuel, porting an intake. These are clearly stated rules. It's time Nascar stops playing this bull**it game. In Football, Baseball, and even Indy cars the rules are clearly defined. If it's a gray area and there is no clear rule then no rule has been broken. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

[falcongtho3]

They have rules? When did that start? So much for the (Forty) Three Stooges.

I do get what you're saying aboutthe rules, but you also have to give into the fact that those rules are evolving. Every year new rules are introduced, removed or revised. Whether it be IRL, IRS, NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA or MCA one thing is constant...Things change on a yearly basis. Few of the previously mentioned groups have experienced the axis shift that the COT has brought to NASCAR, much less the rules upheavels that accompany such a rewrite of the entire big picture. Just wait until the "Car of the Day After Tomorrow" shows up, wiht things like fuel injection six-speed or paddle shift trannys, cup holders, cell phones, CD players, DVD players and A/C! Now that WILL be racing STOCK CARS !!!

[02mach1]

Fords will win today

[falcongtho3]

Nice to see Fords on the front row. This first COT road course event should be interesting to see. One of the funniest things you'll ever see is if, you can catch some vintage NASCAR footage and see them road racing, the huge Superbirds, Talledagas, and full sized Chevys. It looks like they're all about to keel over in the turns, and the switchback portions look like disaster waiting to happen.

[Azure Blurr]

Originally Posted by 02mach1

The Fords 1 and 2 for the race this weekend!:HOPPY:

I'm sure someone here in a ylopony will say it is because Jeff and Jimmy could not qualify! :THUMBSUP:

[02mach1]

Originally Posted by AZURE GIRL

I'm sure someone here in a ylopony will say it is because Jeff and Jimmy could not qualify! :THUMBSUP:

that's right and Matt will get some pionts today to catch Jeffy.

[bullitt784]

kasey kahne FTW

[Thunderbolt]

The Golden Boys start in the back. Let's see if the punishment fits the crime.

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by ylopony

It seems to be what Nascar is becoming more and more. As for the alleged cheating:



Reports have continuously said that the fenders FIT the templates, barely touching a couple spots and that is WASN'T cheating, NASCAR just felt that they had worked the gray area in which there IS NO RULE.

Nascar should clearly state in the rules, this is the fender, bumper, spoiler, splitter, wax, windshield cleaner, and etc etc. Change nothing, don't work on anything.

What Kurt Busch and Tony Stewart did a few weeks ago is a bigger issue than what DEI and Hendricks have done. It's always been about trying to squeeze everything out of the car that you can, minus playing with the restrictor plate, adding rocket fuel, porting an intake. These are clearly stated rules. It's time Nascar stops playing this bull**it game. In Football, Baseball, and even Indy cars the rules are clearly defined. If it's a gray area and there is no clear rule then no rule has been broken. That's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.

NASCAR said that at the beginning of the year. They told all of the teams that they have the car, leave the body alone. The actions taken by Gordon's and Johnson's teams were intentional and deliberate acts that were contrary to NASCAR's rules. The teams had very clear instructions and these teams chose not to follow them. That made these violations much worse than anything else this year. Busch and Stewart are a completely different issue that can't be compared to this situation.

We'll see what NASCAR decides as far as penalties, but the actions taken on DEI earlier for an oversight should give us an idea of what they will do.

[Thunderbolt]

Robby Gordon hit 10,000 RPM's on his tach. Wonder if his engine will last the whole race.

[ShebMach1]

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder

Montoya sucks butt!!!
I hope someone takes him out!

i agree

[G]

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder

Montoya sucks butt!!!
I hope someone takes him out!

He's not making any friends. Where is Scott Pruett when you need him. He owes him one from meceCo.

[G]

OK Busch will probably take care of One Montoya.

Now he owes him, that was obvious.

[falcongtho3]

I'm cheering for Robbie Gordon and Jamie McMurray? What kind of world do we live in?

[G]

Originally Posted by falcongtho3

I'm cheering for Robbie Gordon and Jamie McMurray? What kind of world do we live in?

Robbie would be a multi-time champion it he drove everywhere like he does on the road course. He is a joy to watch.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by 04VAMach1

NASCAR said that at the beginning of the year. They told all of the teams that they have the car, leave the body alone. The actions taken by Gordon's and Johnson's teams were intentional and deliberate acts that were contrary to NASCAR's rules. The teams had very clear instructions and these teams chose not to follow them. That made these violations much worse than anything else this year. Busch and Stewart are a completely different issue that can't be compared to this situation.

We'll see what NASCAR decides as far as penalties, but the actions taken on DEI earlier for an oversight should give us an idea of what they will do.

Nascars own words were that it was a gray area. Gray area to me means that it is not clearly defined. You are correct that it was an intentional act. However, Nascar has always been all about pushing the envelope, squeeze more out of the car without clearly violating the rules. That is what they were doing.

Nascar could end all this poppy *oc* bullsh*t once and for all by clearly stated don't touch anything on the freaking cars. Both of the cars fit within the mold that Nascar measured the car.

I'm not saying don't penalize them. But you cannot in anyway penalize these two cars more severly than that of the Waltrip team who attempted to add an additive to the intake. That was flat out cheating in any era of Nascar. This was again in Nascars own words "a gray area".

As for Montoya, I can't stand that punk. It was sickening to watch him not run out of fuel.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by AZURE GIRL

I'm sure someone here in a ylopony will say it is because Jeff and Jimmy could not qualify! :THUMBSUP:

You are so correct on that one.

[Bama04Mach1]

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder

Bite My Azz Montoya!!!