NASCAR thread

[MAC[H]Z]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

Are you serious? Maybe 50 years ago that was true but far from it today. It seems nascar has gone to alot of Sat. night races also not Sunday.

So you think the auto makers spend millions in racing because they have nothing better to do with their money?? No they spend it because of a thing called brand loyalty belive it or not a large percentage of nascar fans buy what their favorite drives.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by MAC[H]Z

Have you guys ever heard of win on Sunday sell on Monday??? If you think Toyota winning doesn't cause a problem for American auto you are wrong. Did it cause them to get into the mess they are in now, no but it doesn't help either

Yes, I'm quite familiar with the saying. Problem with that saying is most people are smart enough to realize that todays race car is no where close to what is on the showroom floor unlike the good old days when it was a re-worked production car.

I also believe you seriously misread my buying American comment. It was the just buy American mentallity that helped get the US car industry in trouble in the first place. They knew we would buy the car no matter what they offered just because it was American. Doesn't quite seem fair to us does it. I do my best to support American companies right down the gas I buy, but only if they do their part and offer a comparable product at a comparable price.

For the record all my cars are either Ford or Dodge and have been for years with the exception a free Corolla and a POS Grand Am.

A bit of Devils advocate here:
1. What is the difference in the profits going to another country or sitting in some board members off shore bank account. Either way, I'll never see it.
2. What kind of cars do the board members of the big three drive?
3. Why should I only buy from an American company when that exact same company didn't return the favor with the components they used to make the product?
4. I do my best to stay out of debt while still having nice things. So, isn't it in my best interest to buy the best product in my price range?
5. There is a lot of things I can't buy an American made version of. We no longer make it, it's cheaper to make it off shore.

I've lost two jobs because the American owned company decided to cash in and sell to a foreign company and they in turn decided it was cheaper to have the job done somewhere else.

[beerformeplz]

Originally Posted by MAC[H]Z

No they spend it because of a thing called brand loyalty belive it or not a large percentage of nascar fans buy what their favorite drives.

Kind of like all the Jr fans the got #8 tatoos on there bodys. I like Stewart and Busch but that doesnt make me want to run out and buy a C.O.T. Because there all the same anyways.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

Kind of like all the Jr fans the got #8 tatoos on there bodys. I like Stewart and Busch but that doesnt make me want to run out and buy a C.O.T. Because there all the same anyways.

I'm sure the only reason that you are a Stewart and Busch fan is because of Joe Gibbs and his ties to the Redskins. But that is ok, root for who you like. That is what it's all about. I bet you were not a fan of Busch when he was driving for Hendricks last year. And are you going to be a fan of Tony Stewart with his team next year. If this is not the case then accept my apology. I have to agree with the #8 tats. The last thing I'm going to tat on me is a nascar racers number.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by MAC[H]Z

I agree our products aren't what they used to be but it's the fault of people like you who could care less where it comes from. America made the finest products in the world, people then decided price was more important and started buying oversea so American companies had to cut quality to compete with the China's of the world but we wouldn't do it at the cost of workers health unlike other contries so our manufacturing dropped out.

Just keep buying your so callled better products and when we have no jobs and no money to buy anything anyway then you have no one to blame but yourself.

Please tell me you are kidding. Last time I knew BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, etc, etc were never cheaper than US cars. They were better.

It was labor unions and the government that had to step in and mandate how the US worker would be treated. Most manufacturing companies didn't do it out us the goodness of their own heart and it wasn't until the 70's that we started caring about air quality. If companies were really concerned about worker safety and health we wouldn't need OHSA or MHSA. Big business only cares about the bottom line, PROFIT.

I have no pity for a company that pockets or wastes all the money rather than re-investing it and then gets stomped by the company that continued to develop its products, processes, and returned some of that money to the workers so they do a better job and care about the product they make.

I can't stand jobs going over seas but I refuse to P*** my money away to buy a product I know is inferior, which by the way 9 out of 10 times an American made product is not even an option.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

Kind of like all the Jr fans the got #8 tatoos on there bodys. I like Stewart and Busch but that doesnt make me want to run out and buy a C.O.T. Because there all the same anyways.

At least they were nice enough to make Jr's new #88. That way one would only have to have another 8 tatooed. Now the people that got a Bud tatoo on the other hand are screwed. Hope they like Khane and can route for a Dodge.

[birdman941]

Since you're bringing up things from 100 years ago,
why not bring up slavery too?
Things change.
The Japs have copied everything the Americans do,
with the exception of winning wars.
They have not had an original thought once.
They steal others' ideas and gullible people think they are better.
NOT!

[bris09]

Originally Posted by birdman941

Since you're bringing up things from 100 years ago,
why not bring up slavery too?
Things change.
The Japs have copied everything the Americans do,
with the exception of winning wars.
They have not had an original thought once.
They steal others' ideas and gullible people think they are better.
NOT!

I won't argue that point. I actually never understood the whole rebuilding a country that attacked us with the most modern technology. We deserve a big old for that one. And yes they do steal others ideas and improve on them. Our problem is we design it and never improve on it until we are forced to while at the same time crying foul. Everyone knows if you want to stay the best you have to keep working hard. Some where along the line we decided we are the best and that is that so we stopped working to remain the best.

[beerformeplz]

Originally Posted by ylopony

I'm sure the only reason that you are a Stewart and Busch fan is because of Joe Gibbs and his ties to the Redskins. But that is ok, root for who you like. That is what it's all about. I bet you were not a fan of Busch when he was driving for Hendricks last year. And are you going to be a fan of Tony Stewart with his team next year. If this is not the case then accept my apology. I have to agree with the #8 tats. The last thing I'm going to tat on me is a nascar racers number.

Ive always liked Stewart and will continue when he moves to his own team.
The reason I liked him is the reason Kyle has grown on me, attitude. If I was a driver I would be the same way. I think Busch gets a bad wrap but he seems like a good guy. He drives tons of short track charity races for nothing and has even drove truck races for free. Time will tell though as usally it always ends up being about the $$$.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

Ive always liked Stewart and will continue when he moves to his own team.
The reason I liked him is the reason Kyle has grown on me, attitude. If I was a driver I would be the same way. I think Busch gets a bad wrap but he seems like a good guy. He drives tons of short track charity races for nothing and has even drove truck races for free. Time will tell though as usally it always ends up being about the $$$.

Kyle is just like Dale Sr. You even loved him or hated him. People seem to forget that Sr would wreck someone if he couldn't pass them and then in the interview say it was the other drivers fault for not letting him pass them. To be the star of Nascar you either need to have the looks, the lack of proper pronucniation, or an attitude on the track. The more succesful drivers have the attitude. Ever listen to Jeff Gordon on the radio during a race, not quite the same guy you see in the interviews. Kyle just hasn't learned to flip that switch yet. I don't watch much Nascar anymore (my way of saying **** Nascar and Toyota) but Kyle can drive a car.

[02mach1]

Ok it is time for bristol Iam taking Carl 99#

[G]

Originally Posted by bris09

Kyle is just like Dale Sr. You even loved him or hated him. People seem to forget that Sr would wreck someone if he couldn't pass them and then in the interview say it was the other drivers fault for not letting him pass them. To be the star of Nascar you either need to have the looks, the lack of proper pronucniation, or an attitude on the track. The more succesful drivers have the attitude. Ever listen to Jeff Gordon on the radio during a race, not quite the same guy you see in the interviews. Kyle just hasn't learned to flip that switch yet. I don't watch much Nascar anymore (my way of saying **** Nascar and Toyota) but Kyle can drive a car.

Kyle is just like Dale Sr.

You don't seem to know much about Ralph Earnhardt's son.

http://www.earnhardtnation.com/ralph_earnhardt.html

He WAS more like his dad than you can imagine. My dad was a racer with Ralph and has on more than one occasion bought food for Ralph and Dale at the track. I remember camping with them in the early to mid 60's at Darlington, it was a struggle for everyone to afford those trips. To compare Dale to shrub is nuts in everyway way except the "winning" thing.

Go to Wal-Mart and spend $13 on the tin full of "Dale" DVD's. If anything, it paints a pretty picture of his early life. Let's see every crew come out to give congrats to shrub (or anyone else) winning the Daytona 500!!!! It ain't gonna happen and there was good reason for it. Keep in mind, I'm not even an Earnhardt fan.

Why was Big E great: 17th with 4 laps to go and he pulls off the win. Check out the vid, I saw it in person and it was remarkable.

[falcongtho3]

And here come the penalties...

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/head...ies/index.html

[birdman941]

I think the penalties were a bit soft.
They should have taken more points away.
Oil cap falls off, 100 point deduction.
Intentionally placing parts to mess with ASSCAR's data, 150?
Should have been 500.
Fine should have been 500 grand.
That would get the cheaters' attention.
Gee, ya think the Toilettas will get booed at Bristol?

[falcongtho3]

Booed? I'd be more surprised if they don't get shot at!
The 'indefinite' suspension of the crew chiefs is probably the best attention getter. I don't think the $ is ever the part of the penalty that hurts the overall group. I also thing the points fine could have been bigger (that will impact them monitarily more at the end of the season), and I wish the actual teams would have been suspended from racing for at least one race.

[birdman941]

[bris09]

Originally Posted by birdman941

I think the penalties were a bit soft.
They should have taken more points away.
Oil cap falls off, 100 point deduction.
Intentionally placing parts to mess with ASSCAR's data, 150?
Should have been 500.
Fine should have been 500 grand.
That would get the cheaters' attention.
Gee, ya think the Toilettas will get booed at Bristol?

Not really, they got basically the same penalty as Truex who brought an illegal car to the the track with the intent of racing it.

I agree that by Nascar's rules hiding your true HP is cheating and they should be punished but which is worse? Hiding the HP level of a legal car or running a car that you know is illegal. I have yet to hear Nascar say the cars dynoed to high without the magnets.

As stated before I am not a Toyota fan and can't stand them being in Nascar but the penalties should fit the crime.

Hey G, the only reason Dale Sr got so much admiration after winning the 500 is because it took him so long to do it. I'd wager to say the same admiration would be shown to any driver that goes that long before winning it.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by birdman941

I think the penalties were a bit soft.
They should have taken more points away.
Oil cap falls off, 100 point deduction.
Intentionally placing parts to mess with ASSCAR's data, 150?
Should have been 500.
Fine should have been 500 grand.
That would get the cheaters' attention.
Gee, ya think the Toilettas will get booed at Bristol?

I agree.

[MAC[H]Z]

Originally Posted by bris09

Not really, they got basically the same penalty as Truex who brought an illegal car to the the track with the intent of racing it.

I agree that by Nascar's rules hiding your true HP is cheating and they should be punished but which is worse? Hiding the HP level of a legal car or running a car that you know is illegal. I have yet to hear Nascar say the cars dynoed to high without the magnets.

As stated before I am not a Toyota fan and can't stand them being in Nascar but the penalties should fit the crime.

Hey G, the only reason Dale Sr got so much admiration after winning the 500 is because it took him so long to do it. I'd wager to say the same admiration would be shown to any driver that goes that long before winning it.

Not a Toyota fan yet you do your best to back them on every post..

Hiding the horsepower of a legal car????? Too much horsepower makes the car illegal so hiding horsepower and legal car do not go together. And as you said the same penalty for a guy who tries to cheat as opposed to a team that did cheat the entire season...

[birdman941]

History will show that Jack Roush was right.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by MAC[H]Z

Not a Toyota fan yet you do your best to back them on every post..

Hiding the horsepower of a legal car????? Too much horsepower makes the car illegal so hiding horsepower and legal car do not go together. And as you said the same penalty for a guy who tries to cheat as opposed to a team that did cheat the entire season...

Show me one thing that says the cars dynoed too high without the magnets and how have they cheated the whole season? Everything I read said they were trying to exaggerate the impact of the rule change, which is cheating but is far from the crime some of you guys are trying to make it out to be. True sports are about being fair, including the penalties. Kicking Toyoyta out of Nascar for what these two teams did is obserbed. Nascar ****** up when they let Toyota in and they and everyone else is going to have to live with that decision.

There is only one difference between a guy who gets caught trying to cheat and one who is found to have been cheating and that is timing.

[birdman941]

Originally Posted by bris09

Show me one thing that says the cars dynoed too high without the magnets and how have they cheated the whole season? Everything I read said they were trying to exaggerate the impact of the rule change, which is cheating but is far from the crime some of you guys are trying to make it out to be. True sports are about being fair, including the penalties. Kicking Toyoyta out of Nascar for what these two teams did is obserbed. Nascar ****** up when they let Toyota in and they and everyone else is going to have to live with that decision.

There is only one difference between a guy who gets caught trying to cheat and one who is found to have been cheating and that is timing.

Like I said, Jack Roush was right.
ASSCAR gave away the farm trying to get Toiletta into the series.
All that ASSCAR did was perpetuate their own eventual failure.

[bris09]

Originally Posted by birdman941

Like I said, Jack Roush was right.
ASSCAR gave away the farm trying to get Toiletta into the series.
All that ASSCAR did was perpetuate their own eventual failure.

Couldn't agree more. I prefer going to a local dirt track as to watching Nascar. At least that is still real racing and not an overhyped IROC series.

[beerformeplz]

Originally Posted by MAC[H]Z

Too much horsepower makes the car illegal so hiding horsepower and legal car do not go together. .

If you follow the rules and make more horsepower that means your cheating? Dont think so, that means you know what your doing.

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by beerformeplz

If you follow the rules and make more horsepower that means your cheating? Dont think so, that means you know what your doing.

I'm not going to say that Toyota was cheating. They were given a huge upper hand by Nascar by allowing them to use modern tech while forcing Chevy and Ford to use the old tech they already had. However, it is infutible that Kyle Busch and his team were cheating. They were caught and was pathetic with trying to cover it up. They knew those cars exceeded the reduction in hp that Nascar mandated. A very good driver he is, but a Busch league(pun intended) action he and his team committed.