Tranny Removed...only leads to more questions!

[USMCWeatherMan]

Okay, after spending about 5 hours yesterday removing the starter bolts and all the bellhousing bolts I finally got the tranny out today....but that is where the problems begin.

See, my car is a 5spd Mach, although I am the second owner, I do have the original window sticker and match the VIN verifying it was built as a 5spd.

However, when I got the pressure plate off and got a look at the flywheel, what do I see....but only 6 bolts staring at me!

Through me off for a little bit because I was for sure all manual Machs were 8 bolt.

So I start peeking around and can see some tags on the engine block:



So from what some of the guys at the hobby shop say it looks like a salvaged motor.

I racked my brain for a little bit. At first I was p!ssed cause I though maybe a regular old GT motor was put in there cause I know those got a 6 bolt. But then, it hit me...maybe the previous owner bought an automatic Mach engine and just bolted it up to his manual tranny using a GT flywheel and clutch.

So my question(s) are:

Can anyone confirm this for me, I took some pics of the numbers off the back of the engine but not sure how to find out from them (see below)?

If this is the case, then will any GT flywheel/clutch fit?

Last, what are the benefits (or downsides), if any, to having an auto engine saddled up to a manual tranny?





http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/IMAG0996.jpg

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/o...C/IMAG0989.jpg

Here's a pic of the clutch/pressure plate...crazy looking, its got no identifying marks on it:

http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/o...IMAG0999-1.jpg

The flywheel says Perfection 50-748 on the back "Made in China" (no pics).

Thanks very much in advance. I am no expert by any means, just a guy trying to learn (although a little late in life!) and trying to save a buck by not taking it to a shop or the stealership.

[006]

Dunno much about the Mach1 factory configs and options, but from what I've read on here is that the 5 speeds would defintely be an 8 bolt crank & flywheel, so the assessment of being a salvage or replacement motor sound about right.

Yes you can use the setup as it is. If the old clutch setup measures 11", then you will be fine since all mid 2001+ GTs came with an 11" clutch, PP but retained a 6 bolt 11" flywheel.

If you are not comfortable with keeping the Chinese flywheel, you can pick up a 6 bolt OEM replacement fairly cheap.

Just curious, where is the drain plug on that transmission? On the bottom right side? Or underneath?

T45 - Bottom right
TR3650 - Underneath

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by 006

Dunno much about the Mach1 factory configs and options, but from what I've read on here is that the 5 speeds would defintely be an 8 bolt crank & flywheel, so the assessment of being a salvage or replacement motor sound about right.

Yes you can use the setup as it is. If the old clutch setup measures 11", then you will be fine since all mid 2001+ GTs came with an 11" clutch, PP but retained a 6 bolt 11" flywheel.

If you are not comfortable with keeping the Chinese flywheel, you can pick up a 6 bolt OEM replacement fairly cheap.

Just curious, where is the drain plug on that transmission? On the bottom right side? Or underneath?

T45 - Bottom right
TR3650 - Underneath

Thx for the reply. The tranny is deff a TR3650, its stamped on the side and the drain plug is underneath.

I've been looking around at GT flywheels.

Would any Mustang 6 bolt flywheel fit?

I measured the old Chinese flywheel, it looks to be just under 14.5" diameter, measuring from tip of the teeth to tip of the teeth.

This has really thrown me for a loop. I'm pretty dang irritated some douche would do this and not in some way tell the dealership when trading it in. I tried to do all my homework and have everything I needed ordered. Had it not turned out like this I probably would have been **** near done with tranny back in.

This raises another question too, will the clutch I bought fit a 6 bolt flywheel? I got from AM, their site says its for all Late 2001-2004 GT's as well as Mach 1's. I guess I will have to call them...so confused.

This issue has now set me back like 4 days...and the Mach is my DD.

Couldnt imagine how it would have went down if I decided to take it to a shop or worse the stealership from them to do the swap...I probably deff would be paying through my a$$ not only that, probably would have confused the sh!t out of them!

If I ever run into the previous owner, I'm gonna him.

[USMCWeatherMan]

Would any of these work??

http://www.lethalperformance.com/99-...olt-crank.html

http://www.brothersperformance.com/9...w#.UURooVc_2ht

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/fm...view/make/ford

The Lethal one says six bolt but the pic shows an 8 bolt I believe.

[USMCWeatherMan]

I looked up that Perfection flywheel, came upon this ebay listing...says its for Ford Trucks

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Perfection-C...884331&vxp=mtr

[006]

Call Steve at Tousley Ford 800-328-9552. He'll be able to get you the correct OEM flywheel (2002-2004 GT 6 bolt flywheel) plus he'll be able to overnight one to you for cheap.

The M-6375-D46 might work with the 11" clutch you just bought.

The eBay one might be another chinese knockoff.

[watman02]

I would be pissed of too man!!!!!

6 bolt cranks were also not as strong as 8 bolt forged cranks(same crank was used in terminators). if u stay N/A youll be fine but it becomes a prob with a power adder. just an FYI.

[CMEmach1]

If you are interested I think I have a new 6 bolt flywheel. My original engine went and I was going to put a Aviator engine in my car. but I was able to find a 5spd Mach engine at the last min. so I have the 6 bolt flywheel. You pay for shipping and $10 for my time to package it and send it and you can have it!I'll go out and check to make sure it's not some made in China POS but I think it's a Ford flywheel.

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by 006

Call Steve at Tousley Ford 800-328-9552. He'll be able to get you the correct OEM flywheel (2002-2004 GT 6 bolt flywheel) plus he'll be able to overnight one to you for cheap.

The M-6375-D46 might work with the 11" clutch you just bought.

The eBay one might be another chinese knockoff.

I called them earlier, Steve was off until Monday. Gentleman who was there said he wasnt as knowledgeable about that stuff so I'll have to call on Monday.

Originally Posted by watman02

I would be pissed of too man!!!!!

6 bolt cranks were also not as strong as 8 bolt forged cranks(same crank was used in terminators). if u stay N/A youll be fine but it becomes a prob with a power adder. just an FYI.

Well first thing I though was that I have a regular old GT SOHC motor in there since I know they were 6 bolt crank, but then it still has the 32V valve covers and what not which is when I started thinking it might have been a Auto Mach engine. Douche kid probably blew the engine sky high racing it cause it was an original 5spd from the factory, then got what he could the cheapest and fastest, swapped it, then traded it in.

Kinda upset about it not being an original 5spd motor with the forged crank, but cant cry over spilled milk now...I've owned the car for almost 5 yrs and its paid off in a month or so. Short term, no plans to go FI, but long term once its not my DD a few years down the road I may try building the motor or tinkering around some more or maybe finding a Cobra motor to throw in there...but that would be years down the road like I said.

Originally Posted by CMEmach1

If you are interested I think I have a new 6 bolt flywheel. My original engine went and I was going to put a Aviator engine in my car. but I was able to find a 5spd Mach engine at the last min. so I have the 6 bolt flywheel. You pay for shipping and $10 for my time to package it and send it and you can have it!I'll go out and check to make sure it's not some made in China POS but I think it's a Ford flywheel.

I really appreciate it! Although I would really like to know for sure what I have and exactly what will fit it....ideally knowing for sure (1) the flywheel will bolt up to the engine and (2) the clutch I have will then bolt up to the flywheel and (3) getting something REAL quick since now I've got to catch a ride to work until I get this sorted!

If I find out for sure, I may take you up on your offer...I really appreciate it, will let you know!

Thx everyone!

[blown03Mach1]

Unless you plan on making STUPID hp down the road, there is no reason to worry about that crank. I have been on here since 05 as well as numerous other mustang sites and I cannot remember one single person breaking a cast crank especially lightly modified cars. In fact that crank may be easier on your oil pump gears as it could be absorbing vibrations better than the forged crank.

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by blown03Mach1

Unless you plan on making STUPID hp down the road, there is no reason to worry about that crank. I have been on here since 05 as well as numerous other mustang sites and I cannot remember one single person breaking a cast crank especially lightly modified cars. In fact that crank may be easier on your oil pump gears as it could be absorbing vibrations better than the forged crank.

Thx for this, makes me feel a little better about the whole ordeal!

And as I said, no real desire for crazy HP numbers now or in the near future. She's plenty fast for me...well at least when the clutch isnt slipping

[blown03Mach1]

I need to correct myself. The cast crank will not absorb vibrations better than the forged. The cast crank will not transmit vibrations as much as the forged crank.

The point I was trying to make is that the cast maybe easier on the oil pump gears.

[XSELLR8]

That's crazy! I just dropped the tranny on my cousin's 01 Bullitt and was showing him how he only has 6 bolts compared to my two Stangs

[Mach828]

The fact that it has an engine out of an auto isn't really a big deal. The cast crank is good, and one could even make an argument that its better for an NA car.

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by Mach828

The fact that it has an engine out of an auto isn't really a big deal. The cast crank is good, and one could even make an argument that its better for an NA car.

Definitely no plans to go FI with this car, thx for the reply!

[Roy]

The cast crank is better for a N/A car. Its lighter.

[USMCWeatherMan]

Called Steve at Tousley, he was a big help...although I wound up going with the Exedy Flywheel from AM. He said since he didnt have any in stock, he would have to drop ship it, which Ford Racing charges him a 10% up charge on (understandable), then the freight charges to overnight it.

The Exedy one worked out to about $350 with overnight shipping.

Anyways, got it in today, everything lined up perfectly. Flywheel is installed and torqued down, clutch/PP installed and torqued down.

Got the clutch fork all cleaned up, its still in good shape so I am reusing it. Put in a new pivot ball/stud though and obviously a new TOB (I went with a Timken not FRPP).

Tomorrow as long as I can enlist an extra set of hands, the tranny will be going back in, and hopefully a few hours after that she will be back on the road ready to break in the new clutch.

I'm honestly thinking that the issues I was having was just due to a bad clutch cable. I say this cause as I've gotten into this thing, I notice the car already has an aftermarket clutch quadrant, however, no firewall adjuster. So I'm thinking the cable was just stretched out. The cable is not an adjustable cable either, looks standard OEM. Plus the c-clip for the cable to the bellhousing down by the clutch fork is/was MIA.

Ah well, hopefully everything goes smoothly and she will be as good as new soon

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by CMEmach1

If you are interested I think I have a new 6 bolt flywheel. My original engine went and I was going to put a Aviator engine in my car. but I was able to find a 5spd Mach engine at the last min. so I have the 6 bolt flywheel. You pay for shipping and $10 for my time to package it and send it and you can have it!I'll go out and check to make sure it's not some made in China POS but I think it's a Ford flywheel.

Thx for the offer, but went with the Exedy from AM...wanted to get this done ASAP since its my DD. I appreciate it though!

[USMCWeatherMan]

I got the tranny back in today...man is that thing a pig! Took 3 of us to muscle it in there.

While I was disassembling everything last week I had a problem with one of the starter bolts...not the top 2 fortunately, but the bottom one. It had been completely rounded off, so I attempted to drill it out, but that only resulted in the threads within the bellhousing getting jacked up.

Bolt was still stuck in there, so I wound up trying to shear the head off which only resulted in me breaking the bracket/arm around the bolt off....so I just bought a new starter.

Wanting this endeavor to be over, I drilled out the hole slightly larger and bought some heavy duty hex flange bolts (or something to that effect. I used some locking washers and a bolt on the other end with some lock-tight.

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow, but does anyone think there will be any issues with this?

I put the middle starter bolt back in and torqued it down with lock-tight as well. Left the top bolt out.

Thx in advance for any insight/thoughts.

[rich1]

Originally Posted by Roy

The cast crank is better for a N/A car. Its lighter.

Yep , I am able to use the smaller diameter Steeda crank underdrive too . This thing revs fast as hello , Dan at Pro-Dyno said . Ive been running Nitrous on it since 2008.

[rich1]

Originally Posted by USMCWeatherMan

I got the tranny back in today...man is that thing a pig! Took 3 of us to muscle it in there.

While I was disassembling everything last week I had a problem with one of the starter bolts...not the top 2 fortunately, but the bottom one. It had been completely rounded off, so I attempted to drill it out, but that only resulted in the threads within the bellhousing getting jacked up.

Bolt was still stuck in there, so I wound up trying to shear the head off which only resulted in me breaking the bracket/arm around the bolt off....so I just bought a new starter.

Wanting this endeavor to be over, I drilled out the hole slightly larger and bought some heavy duty hex flange bolts (or something to that effect. I used some locking washers and a bolt on the other end with some lock-tight.

I'll try to post some pics tomorrow, but does anyone think there will be any issues with this?

I put the middle starter bolt back in and torqued it down with lock-tight as well. Left the top bolt out.

Thx in advance for any insight/thoughts.

WOW , If you sell it i would like to hear the comments that the next owner will make putting a clutch in !

[USMCWeatherMan]

Originally Posted by rich1

WOW , If you sell it i would like to hear the comments that the next owner will make putting a clutch in !

Doubt I sell it anytime soon, but if I did, I imagine what someone else would say once they got in there!

Probably some of the same things I said when I got in there expecting to see an 8 bolt crank only to be looking at a 6 bolt!

The way I look at it, I had some lemons and had to make lemonade.

Anyways, you think it will hold?

[USMCWeatherMan]

Everything's back in and things are running smooth. After finishing the install I had a bad exhaust leak on the driver's side where h-pipe bolts to stock headers. Tried and tried to get it tightened up. Gave up, took it to an exhaust shop.

She's all back together and exhaust leak free now. Doing clutch break in, 50 miles down, 450 or so to go.

Noticed a little chatter early on and a fairly stiff pedal, but the chatter is going down and pedal has softened up some. Seems to be setting in nicely.

I notice that it seems to drive a lot smoother now, before it seemed like if cruising in 5th and trying to accelerate, it would buck and shake a little as clutch was slipping.

That seems to be gone and it cruises and shifts nicely now, feels like a somewhat new car.