NASCAR thread

[G]

Originally Posted by Bama04Mach1

Me too. I wish they had cut Harvick loose to get him. That will learn them to trust other crews when they say they ain't gonna make it.

[G]

So my neighbor comes over while I got the race on in the garage. He's just getting into NASCAR and is a blast to listen to. He said, "look Gordon and Johnson don't run so good when their cars ain't grey."

Then when it gets down to the wire and ButtHead is about to win, he says,"I hope that dang foreigner don't win."

That's only funny because my neighbor is a visiting Doctor from the Netherlands.

[Blackpony04]

Ole Ole Ole Oleeeee!! Goooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll!!!

My south of the border friends at work are gonna have a field day tomorrow....

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by G

He said, "look Gordon and Johnson don't run so good when their cars ain't grey."

Hey now easy there. From 41st to 7th on a road course is pretty darn good to me. Not many drivers could do that with or without a grey car.

[G]

Originally Posted by Blackpony04

Ole Ole Ole Oleeeee!! Goooooooooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll!!!

My south of the border friends at work are gonna have a field day tomorrow....

[gvervoren]

I missed the entire race. I was watching off-road racing in Crandon Wisconsin. It is one of the fastest short-course off road track in the US I believe. We camped out for the weekend. Robby Gordon, Brendan Gaughn, and Jimmy Johnson all used to race there in the off-road trucks. I met and talked to all three of them before they became big named drivers. If I only knew what they would have become, I would have gotten their autographs. I got pretty toasted from the sun this weekend though.

[machths]

Originally Posted by 02mach1

that's right and Matt will get some pionts today to catch Jeffy.

Woohoo! Kenseth gained 85 points towards Gordon.

[03mach69mach]

Originally Posted by falcongtho3

They have rules? When did that start? So much for the (Forty) Three Stooges.

I do get what you're saying aboutthe rules, but you also have to give into the fact that those rules are evolving. Every year new rules are introduced, removed or revised. Whether it be IRL, IRS, NFL, NHL, MLB, NBA or MCA one thing is constant...Things change on a yearly basis. Few of the previously mentioned groups have experienced the axis shift that the COT has brought to NASCAR, much less the rules upheavels that accompany such a rewrite of the entire big picture. Just wait until the "Car of the Day After Tomorrow" shows up, wiht things like fuel injection six-speed or paddle shift trannys, cup holders, cell phones, CD players, DVD players and A/C! Now that WILL be racing STOCK CARS !!!

Don't forget satellite radio and navigation systems!

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by ylopony

I'm not saying don't penalize them. But you cannot in anyway penalize these two cars more severly than that of the Waltrip team who attempted to add an additive to the intake. That was flat out cheating in any era of Nascar. This was again in Nascars own words "a gray area".

I'm still about that one...they should have parked that team for the entire season, or at least banned some people from competition. I think that the money that Toyota is bringing in is the only reason that the penalty wasn't worse...politics at its best. I still wonder if DW had anything to do with that. Sounds like something that he would do in the 80s.

At least the Hendrick teams were caught doing something that was previously permitted. NASCAR did instruct the teams that they wanted the body panels to be as identical as possible among manufacturers, but I guess they need to figure out better wording in the rulebook. Short of NASCAR providing the bodies, I don't know how they could enforce their interpretation fairly.

[tim03mach]

Originally Posted by machths

Woohoo! Kenseth gained 85 points towards Gordon.

umm, i think its the other way around. he lost 85

[G]

Originally Posted by tim03mach

umm, i think its the other way around. he lost 85

He lost ground but not 85 pts. Although Gordon and Johnson should have had some points pulled and lost some personnel for awhile.

[falcongtho3]

I'm with you, I didn't really pay much attention to the points standings after the race knowing that they would change at some point today. It's going to be interesting to see how 'fair & balanced' NASCAR will be today. As big a show as they made of the proceedings last week and as bad as they hammered Jr.s team with their infraction, it'll be of great interest to see what gets handed out to Jeff and Jimmie.

[03mach69mach]

Originally Posted by falcongtho3

I'm with you, I didn't really pay much attention to the points standings after the race knowing that they would change at some point today. It's going to be interesting to see how 'fair & balanced' NASCAR will be today. As big a show as they made of the proceedings last week and as bad as they hammered Jr.s team with their infraction, it'll be of great interest to see what gets handed out to Jeff and Jimmie.

They should hammer them, isn't that one of the reasons for COT! I am not holding my breathe on this one.

[G]

Originally Posted by 03mach69mach

They should hammer them, isn't that one of the reasons for COT! I am not holding my breathe on this one.

Yep, that wouldn't be a good idea.

"I think the punishment on Friday fit the crime. I think anything more than that is going to be extremely disappointing, and really kind of a jaw-dropper."
Jeff Gordon
We will see Jeffy.

[falcongtho3]

And the other boot drops, and it's pretty much what everyone expected. Each driver docked 100 pts., $100K, and crew chiefs suspended for 6 races. Hendrick and Gordon are both docked 100 owners points as well. Jeff stays atop the points, and JJ drops to 5th...(still think this would have been a good time for a suspension, but it'll have to do)
http://www.nascar.com/2007/news/head...ies/index.html

[gvervoren]

They need to start suspending the drivers also. They may not know what the teams are doing that are building the cars but $100k to themn is nothing these days. Also Jimmy Johnson's team proved that they can still win with or without their crew chiefs. Removing a driver from a race or two will cut down cheating greatly I believe. Then the driver will also be making sure the team isn't doing anything illegal also. Here is an article I was reading and I pretty much agree with it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?...v=ap&type=lgns

[ylopony]

Originally Posted by gvervoren

They need to start suspending the drivers also. They may not know what the teams are doing that are building the cars but $100k to themn is nothing these days. Also Jimmy Johnson's team proved that they can still win with or without their crew chiefs. Removing a driver from a race or two will cut down cheating greatly I believe. Then the driver will also be making sure the team isn't doing anything illegal also. Here is an article I was reading and I pretty much agree with it.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nascar/news?...v=ap&type=lgns

I think the point was made very well with both Johnson and Gordon as well as Earnhardt. To just all of a sudden level something more would not be correct. If Nascar wants to make it tougher then they should announce from here on out the penalties will be more severe.

Some of you feel a driver suspension should have happened because of your disdain for the Hendricks cars and these two drivers in particular. They were penalized heavily and with past actions, especially earlier in the year with Waltrip, this was very fair.

Now here is something else for you all to think about. The question was brought up last night on the Speed Channel about Mark Martin driving for Gordon. If Gordon would not have been there to race and Martin was driving for him Mark would have received the driver point penalty and not Jeff. Now that would have really blown a few of your stacks out there. LOL

[Blackpony04]

I agree with all the fines and points docking but I don't feel suspending drivers is necessary in these cases. These guys for the most part are not the drivers of old that used to turn their own wrenches and instead are celebrities spending 90% of their down time entertaining sponsors and fans. I'd shite a brick if I ever saw Jeff Gordon under one of those cars...which is why I like Ryan Newman...a Purdue graduate in Mechanical engineering! He knows how to build a car!

I still say however that Kurt Busch most definitely should have been suspended after nearly running over a jackman in the pits!

[04VAMach1]

I'm glad to see that it wasn't a lighter penalty than DEI, and maybe it was a bit stiffer since they were forced to start from the back of the field. I still believe that it was just another slap on the wrist, especially considering Knaus's history and NASCAR's instructions to leave the COT alone.

As far as suspending drivers, I don't know that I agree with that simply because while they may have some knowledge of the problems it is ultimately the crew chief that is responsible for everything that the team does. The driver may be more visible, but NASCAR holds the crew chief responsible for the actions of the entire team. I believe that it is a big penalty to lose the guy calling the shots for several races. With that said, I think that the suspension should extend to the shop and prohibit any contact with the team for the duration of the suspension. Maybe that would make them think twice about their actions.

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by ylopony

Now here is something else for you all to think about. The question was brought up last night on the Speed Channel about Mark Martin driving for Gordon. If Gordon would not have been there to race and Martin was driving for him Mark would have received the driver point penalty and not Jeff. Now that would have really blown a few of your stacks out there. LOL

Unfortunate, yes. Cause to blow my stack, no. How many races has he skipped this year? How many does he plan to skip for the rest of the year? 100 points does matter when you are not running a full schedule.

On top of that, odds are that they would not have made that modification if Gordon wasn't going to be driving. They just wanted the car out there to fulfill sponsor obligations.

[falcongtho3]

As many people have forgotten (and you know there is no way I'm going to defend Hendrick drivers or the organization), the penalties handed out today are part two of the entire package. The first part was last Friday when the 24 and 48 were parked for practice and qualifying, so in fact the penaties were more harsh than those give the 8, the 55 or Kurt after his little tirade. The money is a mere drop in the bucket for these guys, the suspensions may or may not be little more than a slap on the paw, and the points hit is really not much as it doesn't affect the chase to any great degree. If they'd have knocked off, say 250 points, I think it would get more peoples attention, but I honestly think that if NASCAR were to do that, to be fair I would announce the escalation ahead of time to get it into peoples minds that the stakes are higher. As to Martin taking the fall for what occurred, had he driven? I think he would have been gracious about it, as he is about all things, but the fans would not have taken it lying down (Martins fans still seem to be classier than other drivers fans...as well as sporting more teeth and less B.O.), but Matrins relationship with Hendrick might have taken a hit.

[Blackpony04]

Originally Posted by falcongtho3

As to Martin taking the fall for what occurred, had he driven? I think he would have been gracious about it, as he is about all things, but the fans would not have taken it lying down (Martins fans still seem to be classier than other drivers fans...as well as sporting more teeth and less B.O.), but Matrins relationship with Hendrick might have taken a hit.

Yes we are classier, aren't we?

As for what would happen if Martin was busted while driving for Gordon, that would most definitely answer the question as to whether the driver was involved: NO!

But as for JJ, doesn't anyone remember the 2006 Daytona 500 when they were busted for having a special device welded in that was purposely installed to affect down force? That team has a serious history of cheating (or skirting the rules if you prefer)....

[04VAMach1]

Originally Posted by falcongtho3

Martins fans still seem to be classier than other drivers fans...as well as sporting more teeth and less B.O.

Why, thank you, kind sir! Would you happen to have any Grey Poupon?

[G]

Originally Posted by Blackpony04

I agree with all the fines and points docking but I don't feel suspending drivers is necessary in these cases. These guys for the most part are not the drivers of old that used to turn their own wrenches and instead are celebrities spending 90% of their down time entertaining sponsors and fans. I'd shite a brick if I ever saw Jeff Gordon under one of those cars...which is why I like Ryan Newman...a Purdue graduate in Mechanical engineering! He knows how to build a car!

I still say however that Kurt Busch most definitely should have been suspended after nearly running over a jackman in the pits!

On further looking into this the guy did not have a jack and was not working on the car. He was inspecting the right front fender and was essentially a lookout. What you guys forget is these guys enter the pits all the time with guys fully to the right of the car. It's kind of like a ML pitcher hitting a batter, normally the ball is exactly where they want it. If Kurt intended to hit him he would have been hit.

The member of the 20 crew that came over with the deadblow hammer was ONLY there to use it on Kurt and or the 2 car. While Kurt was wrong for what he did, it has been blown way out of sight. Tim Brewer on the video is a former crew chief and has an axe to grind with Busch. I don't agree with his analysis and if you notice where the NASCAR official is, that's where the one guy over the wall should have been too.

It's NO excuse, Busch got what he deserved and NASCAR discussed the event with the 20 crew members involved as well. If you look at the entire race Stewart was an AZZ the whole time. Kurt should have got his car fixed and moved on to another event before putting him in the wall. Check out the video and tell me Stewarts not an AZZ.

http://video.nascarblog.org/item/NNTJ6Z2798R3V0FJ

I can't stand either one of these guys but Kurt may actually be getting his act together. I'm mad at Stewart for making me defend, ever so slightly, the actions of Kurt Busch.

[gvervoren]

Originally Posted by ylopony

I think the point was made very well with both Johnson and Gordon as well as Earnhardt. To just all of a sudden level something more would not be correct. If Nascar wants to make it tougher then they should announce from here on out the penalties will be more severe.

Some of you feel a driver suspension should have happened because of your disdain for the Hendricks cars and these two drivers in particular. They were penalized heavily and with past actions, especially earlier in the year with Waltrip, this was very fair.

Now here is something else for you all to think about. The question was brought up last night on the Speed Channel about Mark Martin driving for Gordon. If Gordon would not have been there to race and Martin was driving for him Mark would have received the driver point penalty and not Jeff. Now that would have really blown a few of your stacks out there. LOL

It was a fair decision in this case. I'm not saying suspend the drivers because it was Hendricks. I like the Hendrick teams also. They are just not my favorite. I also do not feel that NASCAR lets them get away with more stuff then any other team. People just notice it more because they don't like the drivers. I'm just simply saying that obviously the penalties that they are giving out now doesn't seem to work that great so they need to be more severe. Regardless of who it is. In this particular case, NASCAR did the right thing and gave them the same penalty that JR. got. I just think like what you said, they should tell the teams that the penalties will be more severe from hear on out. That should cut down on the cheating..