Trivia for today

[AZDave]

Originally posted by falcongtho3
For today, what transmission what used in the first gen. Mustangs was sourced in europe, and what was its unique application?

How about the Dagenham, used behind the 6cyl engines only. They required a unique bellhousing, the bolts passed from inside the bellhousing to secure the transmission. I remember putting one of these into my '64 Falcon back in the early 70's. Had a sweet Mr. Gasket shiter too...!


CSX cars are those originally shipped to the US.
COB cars were built for sale in Britain.

[falcongtho3]

Sounds like a right answer to me on both the Dagenham (England) transmission, as well as the COB/CSX question. The tranny was the only time you could get a first gen Mustang with a 6 cyl. as well as a 4 speed tranny. Otherwise it was a 3 sp. stick or auto tranny.
The answer to the shifter question is; the 427 Cobra used a stock Ford shifter...turned backwards! Since the car was so short the transmission sat so far back that no existing shifter would be usable, so they just turned around a stock piece, and the rest is history!
The introductory price of the Mustang was $2,368 f.o.b. Detroit.

[ponygt65]

falcon....where is the trivia?...I can post some, but it will pertain to K's and GT's (first gen)..

[falcongtho3]

Go for it! Everyone is welcome to ask anything they feel is pertinant to Mustangs/Fords/Shelby at any time. After over 250 questions I'm starting to run out of fresh questions.:THUMBSUP:

[ponygt65]

OK...I will try to help. One easy to start and a semi-hard bonus....

Why was 67 the last year of the K-code?


Bonus: Of the 1.7 million mustangs sold through 1967, what percentage of them were K's (not including shelby's)?

From the famous Whoopi Goldberg.......answer these and magic can happen.

[Stangfan]

Hmmmm...

I believe that 1967 was the last year of the 289, upon which the K-code engine was based. 1968 saw the start of the 302.

[troopdoom]

Hey Falcon off topic but this man in our car club has a 66 fastback that was used as a mule by Ford to test a new motor a overhead cam 289 He ays that only 3 were built Henry drove the car with the motor and decided he did not like it so they pulled the motor out and put a k code in it Have you ever head this story?

[ponygt65]

Stangfan - yes the 67 was the last year. BUT, WHY was it the last year??


troopdoom - I have heard of only 1 overhead being build, BUT most of the people I know can't find creditable info regarding Henry's mustang. There are even some rumors about the K he had.


Who knows? Only mustang after 67 can be varified. All of the other models, there is no ford paperwork for.

[falcongtho3]

I really don't know of one specific reason, but in thinking about it there seem to be a number of reasons. The 289 was being phased out in favor of the 302. For racing purposes the Hi-Po would be replaced by the ill-fated Tunnel Port 302, which would be quickly replaced by the Boss 302. The K code sold in small numbers for '67 (the number 471 sticks in my head, although I can't swear to that being the production number). For all out performance the hot rodder would favor the big block engines which were more cost effective for Ford and had fewer warranty problems. The lack of A/C being available as well as forthcoming emissions regulations would have also endangered the engine as well.

As far as Henrys Cammer car, this is not a story I'd heard. There were many special built cars for the Ford family, so nothing would surprise me. In Australia, the then President of Ford Aust. had a one of a kind 428 CJ powered Falcon XY GT HO Phase III built, and it survives to this day.

[Stangfan]

What I was trying to say is that because the K-code was based on the 289, and the 289 was replaced by the 302 in 1968, that is the reason that 1967 was the last year of the K-code.

Sorry for the confusion.....

[ponygt65]

Falcon - you tipped the iceburg.....

Answer to #1 - 0.75% of all mustang production (through 67) were the 289 hipos. (k-codes)

Bonus - The low production figure of 472 in 1967 was a result of the S-code 390 big block. The K was the fastest mustang available. Then, they came out with the 390 big block to compete with the rivals. The S-code 390 option was the SAME price as the K option.

The 302 came into effect to maximize SCCA-trans am rules of 302 (later changed to 305) CID.

[falcongtho3]

It's funny (odd funny, not ha ha funny)that the the K-code Mustang had such a low production figure for '67, especially when you consider that the same engine rested in the engine bay of the GT-350 Shelby that year and there were 1,175 of those made compared to the 2,050 GT-500 big block cars.

[ponygt65]

yeah. that is just it. If you could afford a shelby then great, but 66 was when the big blocks really started making a scene. So Ford had to do something and they used the 390. Most people prefered a 390 big block with 335 HP vs. a 289 small block with 271. Why I will never know. Because there is no way you can run a 390 to 8K RPM's and hold the throttle wide open without having to worry about blowing the motor like you can a hipo 289.

GT question. I will go back to K's after this. What is only real consistant way to tell a true Factory 65 GT with standard interior?

Bonus..... what is the difference between instrument clusters on a 65 and 66 GT??

[falcongtho3]

The '65 GT was theonly way you would get the 5 dial intrument cluster, as opposed to the standard rectangular gauge cluster.
For the bonus, '65's had only one turn signal indicator light, while the '66 had two.

[02mach1]

So who's right?

[ponygt65]

You could order a non GT with pony interior, which would have the woodgrain finish 5-dial cluster.

The only way on a 65 with standard interior would be to pull the cluster and see if the body part of the dash had the indent to properly accept the 5-dial cluster. The non GT's with standard interior came with falcon style clusters. So an original non GT would not properly accept the GT cluster. Everything else on the 65 GT can be fixed during a restoration to seem like a factory GT (except the dual exhaust hangers).


On 65 the GT cluster had a silver accent on the inner portion that only went around the inner top and partial inner sides.

On 66 they used the standard 5 dial cluster which in turn has the silver accent all the way around the inner cluster.

[falcongtho3]

Trivia answer challenge;
You said 'standard interior' GT, not Pony Interior (or Interior Decor Group as it was called then). The only way you got standard interior with a 5 dial black trimmed cluster was to get a GT in '65. If you got the interior decor group that year everythign changed and you got woodgrain and 5 dial regardless of whether it was a GT or not.

In '65 all 5 dial clusters got the partial trim surround on the gauge cluster.

In '66 the standard insturment 5 gauge bezel had the full surround, while the Interior Decor Group bezel was still only a partial surround.

[ponygt65]

Falcon - I think we are saying the same thing but with different context. I was refering to how to check a factory GT vs. a "restored" GT. I apologize for not being clearer. I only mentioned the standard interior, because a car with pony option can easily be restored as a GT and pass as factory. If the data plate refers to standard interior and it does not have the indent to accept the large speedo then the car was never a GT to begin with (in 65).

Again on the 65 vs. 66 I was refering to black camera case finish (non-pony int.). I will try to be a little clearer on my explainations, sorry.

new trivia - what is the only inernal part on a HIPO 289 that is the same as the reg. 289? (excluding valves because those are still unproven)

Bonus........T or F - C and A code valve springs were the same as the K kodes.

[falcongtho3]

The main internal part, and the answer I think you are looking for, is the crankshaft. Although it was an off the shelf unit, it did go through extra testing before being fitted in the Hi-Po, at which point is had a special stamping to indicate that it had been thoroughly checked out. The oil and water pumps were also the same. The valve springs were stiffer than on the non-Hi-Po cars, but of the same dimensions as were the valves.

For today I'll take GT trivia for $500, Alex.
What was the only year in the production of the Mustang that the GT package did not include an additional driving/fog lamp as part of that option?

[Twister Special]

Originally posted by falcongtho3
The main internal part, and the answer I think you are looking for, is the crankshaft. Although it was an off the shelf unit, it did go through extra testing before being fitted in the Hi-Po, at which point is had a special stamping to indicate that it had been thoroughly checked out. The oil and water pumps were also the same. The valve springs were stiffer than on the non-Hi-Po cars, but of the same dimensions as were the valves.

For today I'll take GT trivia for $500, Alex.
What was the only year in the production of the Mustang that the GT package did not include an additional driving/fog lamp as part of that option?

I believe it was a 1969.

[falcongtho3]

You believe right! Glad to see you back on the thread!

[ponygt65]

Originally posted by falcongtho3
The main internal part, and the answer I think you are looking for, is the crankshaft. Although it was an off the shelf unit, it did go through extra testing before being fitted in the Hi-Po, at which point is had a special stamping to indicate that it had been thoroughly checked out. The oil and water pumps were also the same. The valve springs were stiffer than on the non-Hi-Po cars, but of the same dimensions as were the valves.

For today I'll take GT trivia for $500, Alex.
What was the only year in the production of the Mustang that the GT package did not include an additional driving/fog lamp as part of that option?

You are correct...tell him what he has won bob.

And for those that aren't aware, the test falcon was refering to was a Brinell test.

The K valve springs had an "internal spring" (if you would) that allowed the spring to handle the 8K RPM rated motor.

T or F - the Rally pack is an option commonly mistaken as part of the GT package.


(an easy one today).

Bonus - what was the total production number of K's through 1967 (not including shelby's) and of course, give or take a few?

[Twister Special]

a rally pac could be had on any 65 or 66 mustang. i believe it was an option and/or over the counter accessory part.

[ponygt65]

Correct......but there a still mustang fans that believe the rally pac was a GT only option. Makes you wonder how they call themselves fans. (at least of the 1st generation mustangs)

Any guesses on the bonus question?

[falcongtho3]

The production for K code Mustangs is 64.5/65-7,273 for 66-5,469 and for '67-472 for a grand total of 13,214.

For today, the only way you could get a 428 CJ in a Mustang (other than in a Shelby) was to get with the GT package. The only exception (and there are always exceptioons) was the first run of cars. How many non-GT '68 1/8 CJ Mustangs were built and what was the purpose of these special cars?