Re: NASCAR thread
 

What really sucks is that I missed the entire race this weekend.:grr:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

ASSCAR has stuck it up Jack Roush's rear end since day 1.
Remember who the REAL 90 champion was supposed to be.
They used to kiss Ironhead's rear end, now they kiss the convicted felon's. (Hendrick)

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I thought about the Roush 'domination' as it was mentioned earlier in the thread. Roush, nor any of the non-Chevy teams, has been anything close to dominant. If you recall one of the most controversial championships was when a Roush driver won it all, but with only one victory on the season. They were consistent but not dominant. Suddenly the format changed and we get the 'Chase'.
:borg:

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I used to say the same thing --- then the same guys that talked to Tony Stewart came to talk to me. :eek:

Be careful guys, they will send someone to whack ya. :bigeyes:

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You are right, every time Roush or a Ford starts to win consistently, historically Nascar has changed rules, format or both. Ask Bill Elliott about how Nascar instituted rules that only applied to him after all the changes to Ford cars did not slow him down. Or how we have to change the format because a driver can't win only one race and win the championship. Or how we need to look at the Chase as there must be something wrong when one owner can get 5 cars out of the top 10 (remember that owners can only have so many cars or the Roush rule).

There is no secret why Toyota has been allowed to enter Nascar. They are the number 2, soon to be number 1 Auto Manufacturer in the world. Watch how fast Dodge & Ford get passed by the Toyota cars once COT is fully in gear. It won't happen this year, but give it time. Look at this thread next year at this time & see if the worm is turning. GM had better get used to the idea that they will become second dog in Nascar, cause money talks and less money is not acceptable to Nascar. Sorry, I mean Nacar cause their won't be Stock in COT.

Sorry again about the rant. I am harboring some very hard feelings about what Nascar has become & I am getting help for it......NHRA drag racing!!:tongue:

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It's funny that the 'old' Chase format was for 10 cars. Not that Stewart didn't even make that, but had a great run in the last part of the season it's magically become 12 cars. I guess Tony forgot about that part when he was slamming NASCAR for its morphing of the rules. (Stewart was 11th last season when the Chase started)
I'm thinking about defecting to the Grand Am series or something that somehow actually does replicate the old Trans Am series. Something that approximates actual stock cars on a track. What a concept...
:borg:

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Wrong! Roush has been plenty dominant over the years. Name one other team that's owned half of the top 10 in points at years end. Funny you bring up the introduction to the Chase, because that was Gordon's 5th championship under the old system. Thanks to the new Chase format, Gordon's 5th championship was handed to...



...oh yeah, Kurt Busch from ROUSH RACING.

I've learned a lot from you Falcon over the last few years, but what you posted above is wrong and just plain silly. Jimmy Johnson has been great over the last few years, but the rest of Hendrick's teams have had their struggles. Now, the whole organization seems to be firing on all cylinders, much like Roush was a couple years back, but it's still early in the season and they have a long way to go. Teams surge, and if they're properly managed, they can have a 2-5 year stretch where they can always be in the headlines (in a positive way Tony Stewart), week after week, year after year. That seems to be consistent in most sports. The Dallas Cowboys, Pittsburgh Steelers, Detroit Red Wings, New Jersey Devils, Chicago Bulls, LA Lakers, New York Yankees, St. Louis Cardinals. That's just the nature of sports. I think the problem with Roush Racing is that they have a stable of really good drivers, but not great drivers. Then again, maybe contests and reality shows aren't the best way to pick your next driver.

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Glad you've read and enjoyed some of me few postings, buy wrong and silly? I think not. Roush didn't have near the victories in races that Hendricks, DEI, Gibbs or any of the other teams had that year, but won a champoinship anyway. Despite NASCARs best efforts to the contrary. So, we get the Chase. Roush gets mutiple cars in the Chase? Quick, cut the amount of teams any one owner can have! It's interersting that not only is Chevy dominant with the COT, but also (and this has only been quietly mentioned so far) their new engine package is seemingly putting them at the front as well in the old cars. NASCAR has been very slow to react to this, whereas when Awsome Bill was running with the new design Ford heads on his car, which did trickle down to the other Ford teams, got them spoiler changes really quick. NASCAR can't change the actual oucome of a race (or can they?), but they can 'guide' the rules to a favorable outcome which favors their desired outcome. (e.i., They can give JJ or Gordon bigger restrictor plate openings, but they can't stop a Turn 4 melee which takes out one or more or the golden children) The Roush driver I was refering to was not Kurt Bush, but Matt Kenseth. Kurt had 3 victories in his championship season in 2004, whereas Matt only had ONE victory, held the top spot in the rankings from the fourth race on and had to use 7 provisionals to make his dream season happen in 2003 He was consistent, not dominant. If you want wrong and silly, check your facts.
I do understand the ebb and flow of sports, and this is a sport. I remember the domination of the Miami Dolphins, the Dallas Cowboys, and the S.F 49ers, but now we live in a world where the hot team is...(dare I say it?) the New Orleans Saints! And everyone's concerned about global warming...
:borg:

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You missed the point...Matt Kenseth won the last championship prior to the chase by winning only one race the entire season. He won by being consistent. NASCAR changed the rules and introduced the chase...that is when Kurt Busch won. NASCAR made some more adjustments and Roush still managed to get all 5 drivers into the chase. I wouldn't say they were dominant because they weren't winning every weekend, only consistent.

Keep in mind that Jack Roush is still the only car owner who has had points taken away after winning a race...which ended up being more than the margin that the championship was handed to Dale Earnhardt.

The point is that NASCAR has never been happy about Roush being involved and has done everything they can to push him away. He just happens to be a stubborn, old man with enough money to push back. Unfortunately, NASCAR makes up the rules that he was to play by. If Mark Martin had driven for any other team, he would have had several championships.

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I see what you're saying, but if Chevy's were getting all of this preferential treatment, then wouldn't Jr. be up there as well? After all, he is NASCAR's number one driver with the fans. What's been his problem this year? Jimmie Johnson has been the face of Hendrick Motorsports the last few years, not Jeff Gordon. Jimmie wasn't bought by Hendrick. Jimmie came to Jeff to beg him for a shot. Jeff saw something he liked in JJ and now they're probably the best 1-2 combo in NASCAR. Is that so shocking that a team with Hendrick's resources, and the greatest active driver would create another great team rather than a team filled with mediocrity? Every time there is a sport-wide car change, one manufacturer seems to perform a little better as a whole, every time. To suggest that NASCAR is helping Hendrick or Gibbs win though. They can, but I don't think they do. Gordon has always made aggressive moves to put him in the hunt at the end of the day, and Knaus has made some gutsy calls to get Jimmie in the show at race's end. Tony Stewart and Junior, although I can't stand either one of them, consistently make mind-blowing moves to get to the front. Ford teams had those types of drivers in Ryan Newman and Kurt Busch. Not anymore. Help me out here...who does Ford have now that is known for taking risks, making gutsy calls and putting it all on the line for one race. There's got to be someone, but I can't think of anyone at the moment. Ford racing teams need charisma and personality. The NFL is a good example. When I watched pro football, I chose to watch NFC games, because I found the AFC games to be dull and boring. Well, in NASCAR, the Chevy and Dodge teams have the exciting drivers with personality, and Ford teams are generally boring. Elliott Sadler is the exception. What an awesome guy to listen to in an interview and just a good, decent person. Unfortunately, also not known for making the race winning moves needed to be a consistent winner. The problem with the idea of NASCAR dictating who wins is that they have to convince 42 other people to see that it happens. Not likely. I do feel that they throw unnecessary cautions with 10 laps or less on a weekly basis to massage and manipulate an outcome. I agree with that 100%.

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I agree with a great deal of what you said, except now Sadler is now a Dodge driver, having jumped ship from Yates (another little discussed ford team who's managed to qualify well this year, but underperformed otherwise) in a swirl of turmoil last year. I really did like his personality and was nothing like so many of the other cookie cutter driver personalities. I won't go on record to say that there isn't talent in the GM pits, both behind the wheel and behind the wall. But Earnhardt had often been the recipient of bad luck as well as bad management and other behind the scenes skirmishes within the company that bears his dads name. Can you imagine Jr. driving with Martins team? That would not only overshadow whatever domination that Hendrick has had, but could actually create a two car team that might actually be dominant on talent alone.
Kurt got booed when he won his championship so badly, that I don't even think Gordon could have dealt wiht that much negativity. Matt has been a great driver, consistent, but not the personality that the NASCAR powers want on the headlines. The only Ford driver that could possibly be capable of that is Mr. Backflip, Carl Edwards. With his personality on TV and his signature 'move' after a victory, if he never wins a champoinship he will still be remembered much longer than those that actually have.
On a slightly different and more somber note, my dad picked me up a NASCAR book. It's an older book and highlights driver up to the late '90's. To look through it and see the number of drivers who are no longer around is staggering. I applaud the efforts of NASCARs efforts to protect the drivers and fans, but to see those who are no longer with us reminds me that this is still a dangerous sport.
:borg:

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I didn't miss the point, I simply said that I disagree. I don't think a team has to win 10 races a year to dominate and I don't think an owner has to have 15 wins a year to dominate. When you consistently have the same 2 or 3 in the top 5, I feel that level of consistency is a characteristic of domination. That's the way the points system is set up in NASCAR. The NHL is a good example. You can, in theory, make it into the playoffs by only winning 10 out of 82 games a year. How? The NHL has a points system as well giving 2 points to the winner and 0 points to the loser, unless the losing team can tie the game in regulation, sending the into OT, then losing, they still get 1 point. Therefore, losing 72 games in OT and winning 10 games would give you 92 points, which seems to be the magic number, virtually guaranteeing you a playoff spot. That said, once you get into the playoffs, you can win the championship by winning from that point on. Then, still, even if you don't win the championship every year, just consistently being there, and winning a few championships over a decade, is, to me, a symbol of domination. Always there, always a threat and winning a few. You need to remember hockey, football, basketball are all sports with 1 winner and 1 loser. Not NASCAR. NASCAR has one winner, one loser, and 41 runner-ups. Totally different definition of domination when talking about sports with multiple competitors fighting for the same win week after week.
Again, I disagree. Mark Martin is an exactly what I'm talking about. He doesn't take the risks, or make the moves to win week after week or championships. He is perfectly content to "ride around" and if he happens to be in the lead when the checkered flag falls, then great.

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Yeah, Elliott's no longer with Ford, but he's the only Ford driver that I actually rooted for. I do really like Carl Edwards and that kid has some real talent. I just hope he gets the team and equipment he needs to be a major player.

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By your own definition, Mark Martin has dominated NASCAR...he has finished in the top 10 in points all but once since 1989, finishing 2nd four times. Guess what his nickname is..."Mr. Consistency"

He is a 4 time ASA champion (3 consecutive) and 5 time IROC champion. He also has more Busch series victories than any other driver. I guess he just happens to be in the lead a lot.

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Wrong again. He has no championships, which "by my definition", as you would say, he would need at least 2 in a decade, along with his level of consistency to fit MY definition of domination. Kind of like the Atlanta Braves. They dominated the National League since the early 90's, but have by no means dominated the MLB because they only have 1 championship. If they had at least 2, then I would say they dominated the '90's.
Yes, I'm aware he is one of the most accomplished racers out there...except for in NASCAR Winston/Nextel Cup. It's sad, because he's such a great guy, and he's truly a remarkable person having to overcome what he has in his life, but he's just a little too conservative of a driver to be a dominator in Nextel Cup racing. It's far too competitive to just ride around. You've got to make things happen.

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Is your last name France? Rules are changing again.

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Will GM Bought out Nascar 23 years because of new T Bird back in 84 it faster then GM cars, Ford always have better race cars GM Still can't handle it, so GM still payoff Nascar to win.

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:what: What on earth are you talking about? Rules are changing again? Sorry, but I don't understand your attempt at...humor, I suppose. :OUCH:

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Nope you did you missed it.

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Here's a question that I'm going to throw out to many of you Dale Earnhardt Jr. fans.(and yes, I do like him).

Now that Junior has made it official that he's going to be leaving DEI at the end of the year, how many of you will no longer be fans of his if he was to join the Hendricks stable? That is a possibility,especially if they let Mears go to make room for him. He may even start his own team and use Hedricks motors and engineering. Hmmm.

However, If he doesn't do either of these and still a very possible scenario would be for him to join the Childress team. How awesome would that be to see him in the #3 car on that team.

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He is a better and CLEANER driver than his old man ever was.
I don't dislike him, but I'm a Ford guy.
Always have been.

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I kinda have mixed emotions. As much as I miss the #3 car, I realize that Junior is not his old man.

It would be cool to have an Earnhardt back at the wheel of an RCR #3 Chevy, black or red, doesn't really matter, but I think the novelty would wear thin pretty quick if Junior didn't have success in the car right out of the box.

It's funny, but I wear some GM Goodwrench and Bud shirts from time to time, and people keep asking me why I drive Fords but wear GM shirts, and I just tell 'em, because I rooted for the Man, not the car. Dale Earnhardt could have showed up driving a John Deere for all I care, and I still would have been a fan of his.

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I'm with you on being a fan of the driver and not the manufacturer of the car. However, if he(JR.) were to drive a Toyota he can rot with Jarrett, Waltrip, Vickers, Mayfield, and the rest of them. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, it don't matter to me, But Toyota no way.

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I still have Bud and Coors light T shirts and jackets from the Elliott days.

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Im still going to be a Jr Fan, no matter where he goes.