2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club
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2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/index.php)
-   Engine & Drivetrain (Including trans & rear axles) (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64)
-   -   4.30's or 4.10 (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=35047)

04machwon22 01-12-2009 08:27 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ken03w/mach1 (Post 1095675)
go with the 456s
naa 4.88s !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

CMcCarthy 01-13-2009 10:13 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
I can't help but laugh at all of the people talking about first gear being useless in a Mach with 4.30 gears and stock tires. It isn't the gears and tires, its the driver. Learn to drive your car and you'll then reap the full reward of what the 4.30 gearset has to offer.

I present a video for your inspection. My 2003 Mach 1 with 4.30s, stock gatorbacks, on the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev29KQzDHXI

All it takes is practice. As I posted 5 years ago in this thread, the 4.30 gear is the single best mod you can make on a Mach 1.

gfong 01-14-2009 10:06 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1096495)
I can't help but laugh at all of the people talking about first gear being useless in a Mach with 4.30 gears and stock tires. It isn't the gears and tires, its the driver. Learn to drive your car and you'll then reap the full reward of what the 4.30 gearset has to offer.
I was mentioning the drag strip and the original post is about what would be best for his situation.
I am a fan of 4.30's but as I mentioned they are useless with stock tires at the track.

CMcCarthy 01-17-2009 04:12 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
And I maintain that if you're capable of correctly driving the car they are perfectly fine for stock tires at the track or on the street.

04machwon22 01-17-2009 05:55 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
yeah 4.10s are just overall better im sorry

usmcrebel 01-23-2009 09:01 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1096495)
I can't help but laugh at all of the people talking about first gear being useless in a Mach with 4.30 gears and stock tires. It isn't the gears and tires, its the driver. Learn to drive your car and you'll then reap the full reward of what the 4.30 gearset has to offer.

I present a video for your inspection. My 2003 Mach 1 with 4.30s, stock gatorbacks, on the street.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ev29KQzDHXI

All it takes is practice. As I posted 5 years ago in this thread, the 4.30 gear is the single best mod you can make on a Mach 1.
I would trust Cmac here. I get to watch him drive and build ****. His attention to detail and exhaustive knowledge on mustangs is definitely a great asset....BUT this does have me wondering if he bought a blue mach 1 yet?

vpMach1 01-23-2009 10:26 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1098278)
And I maintain that if you're capable of correctly driving the car they are perfectly fine for stock tires at the track or on the street.
Sorry but you are wrong. You can correctly drive your 4.30 gears and stock tires all you want but they will never keep up with sticky tires, on the track or the street.

Have you launched with 4.30s with stock tires at the track? Most are unable to get < 2.0 60 ft and that is with 3.55 gears. What do you think happens when with 4.30s?

Nice video and good shifting, but every gear you spun, you lost time. Sticky tires won't do that.

usmcrebel 01-23-2009 10:44 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpMach1 (Post 1100745)
Sorry but you are wrong. You can correctly drive your 4.30 gears and stock tires all you want but they will never keep up with sticky tires, on the track or the street.

Have you launched with 4.30s with stock tires at the track? Most are unable to get < 2.0 60 ft and that is with 3.55 gears. What do you think happens when with 4.30s?

Nice video and good shifting, but every gear you spun, you lost time. Sticky tires won't do that.
i'll bust a sub 2.0 for you with the 3.55's come march :smokin: on street tires. then i'll let Cmac do it

vpMach1 01-23-2009 10:51 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcrebel (Post 1100752)
i'll bust a sub 2.0 for you with the 3.55's come march :smokin: on street tires. then i'll let Cmac do it
I said MOST people can't do it. In any case, it's not "perfectly fine" by no means.

Your insane if you think you have an equal chance of winning against another car with same mods with sticky tires.:crazy:

P.S. I hit a sub 2.0 aswell, when stock.

usmcrebel 01-23-2009 11:36 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpMach1 (Post 1100758)
I said MOST people can't do it. In any case, it's not "perfectly fine" by no means.

Your insane if you think you have an equal chance of winning against another car with same mods with sticky tires.:crazy:

P.S. I hit a sub 2.0 aswell, when stock.
my thoughts on stickies are if your can get a good 60 on street no sense in running stickies cuz the driver still "sucks"

vpMach1 01-23-2009 12:47 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by usmcrebel (Post 1100771)
my thoughts on stickies are if your can get a good 60 on street no sense in running stickies cuz the driver still "sucks"
Huh??? :smack:

I give up....

TRXboy 01-23-2009 01:29 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1098278)
And I maintain that if you're capable of correctly driving the car they are perfectly fine for stock tires at the track or on the street.
By this logic - a better tire is pointless.


I drove on stock tires with 4.30's, sorry, spend the extra money on a real tire.


I watched your video - that launch was weak. Spining through second was even weaker.

usmcrebel 01-23-2009 01:40 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vpMach1 (Post 1100797)
Huh??? :smack:

I give up....
sorrry wasn't to clear
it doesn't matter the tire the gear or the car if the driver can't drive worth **** the the times won't be worth ****

CMcCarthy 01-23-2009 09:09 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
To clarify TRXboy, that was a stock Mach with 4.30s on gatorbacks on the street. Ok lets play nice now.


Quote:
Originally Posted by vpMach1 (Post 1100745)
Sorry but you are wrong. You can correctly drive your 4.30 gears and stock tires all you want but they will never keep up with sticky tires, on the track or the street.

Have you launched with 4.30s with stock tires at the track? Most are unable to get < 2.0 60 ft and that is with 3.55 gears. What do you think happens when with 4.30s?

Nice video and good shifting, but every gear you spun, you lost time. Sticky tires won't do that.

Good sir, this little gem is sitting in my garage...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/k...002resized.jpg

Yes, I've launched with sticky tires and 4.30s. I'm not a know-it-all teenager or a first time Mustang owner like the majority of the Mach 1 crowd. Quite the contrary. I've been racing stick cars for 20 years, this ain't my first time at the rodeo.

Never did I imply the sticky tires are pointless. I merely refuted the claim that 4.30s will increase wheelspin compared to 3.55s. This is absolutely not the case in the hands of a competent driver. Of course slicks are faster... and a car with slicks and 4.30s will be faster than a car with slicks and 3.55 gears. In all circumstances, a car with 4.30 gears will be quicker if the driver knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing... do you?

one mach 1 01-23-2009 09:33 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1100978)
To clarify TRXboy, that was a stock Mach with 4.30s on gatorbacks on the street. If my launch was weak, post a video of you doing better or shut the **** up.






Good sir, this little gem is sitting in my garage...

http://i283.photobucket.com/albums/k...002resized.jpg

Yes, I've launched with sticky tires and 4.30s. I'm not a know-it-all teenager or a first time Mustang owner like the majority of the Mach 1 crowd. Quite the contrary. I've been racing stick cars for 20 years, this ain't my first time at the rodeo.

Never did I imply the sticky tires are pointless. I merely refuted the claim that 4.30s will increase wheelspin compared to 3.55s. This is absolutely not the case in the hands of a competent driver. Of course slicks are faster... and a car with slicks and 4.30s will be faster than a car with slicks and 3.55 gears. In all circumstances, a car with 4.30 gears will be quicker if the driver knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing... do you?
I don't think the MAJORITY of the Registry crowd are first time mustang owners. I am not. Every member that I know personally on this registry are not 1st time owners. I think you made that statement based on the emotional content of the subject. BTW 4.56's or 88's are the best bet in a N/A Mach, 4.30's or 56's with a centrifugal supercharger. A buddy of mine has a 99 cobra with 56's and a vortec, and it seems to marry the low end tq with the top end hp seamlessly!'

CMcCarthy 01-23-2009 09:36 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
You could be right now that the cars are getting cheap and changing hands to 3rd and 4th owners in some cases. I bought mine when they first came out and at that time this site was overrun with first timers. Thats why after I got rid of my Mach 1 I quit coming here.

one mach 1 01-23-2009 09:51 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1100989)
You could be right now that the cars are getting cheap and changing hands to 3rd and 4th owners in some cases. I bought mine when they first came out and at that time this site was overrun with first timers. Thats why after I got rid of my Mach 1 I quit coming here.
I see. This is my fourth. I was actually concieved in a 68 GT mustang fast back! Love your 84 gt 350 btw, I think they only made 5000 of those! I think they made a 4V too that year. I turned 15 that year working on my drivers permit, and drooled over having a new mustang. I ended up getting a 71 Mustang Grande with a 351 cleavland with 4 speed hurst shifter!

CMcCarthy 01-23-2009 09:56 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
This one is my 15th or 16th, I forget. Its actually an LX dolled up like a GT350. My first car was an actual '84 GT-350 however, and I've loved them ever since.

Mach1Nut 01-23-2009 09:58 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1100978)
Never did I imply the sticky tires are pointless. I merely refuted the claim that 4.30s will increase wheelspin compared to 3.55s. This is absolutely not the case in the hands of a competent driver. Of course slicks are faster... and a car with slicks and 4.30s will be faster than a car with slicks and 3.55 gears. In all circumstances, a car with 4.30 gears will be quicker if the driver knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing... do you?
I ran twice within 45 minutes with my drag radials and street tires. I have 4.56's and these are my 2 slips from that night.

ET Street DR's 60' - 1.7019 330' - 5.3319 660' - 8.2999 mph - 83.290
Street Tires 60' - 1.9540 330' - 5.6771 660' - 8.6741 mph - 82.670

My best time at this same track before the 4.56's with the street tires (I never ran the car with the stock gears and the Drag Radials.)

Street Tires 60' - 2.0637 330' - 5.7707 660' - 8.8204 mph - 80.790

Basically I improved my 60' time .1 with the 4.56's and street tires but I am confident that I would have done better than a .1 improvement in my 60' with just drag radials and stock 3.55's.

If I had to choose my first mod, it would be the gears. You do have to know how to drive the car well to see an improvement at the track with stock tires.

:gears:

I think I am rambling on so I'll stop now.

vpMach1 01-24-2009 04:05 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMcCarthy (Post 1100978)
To clarify TRXboy, that was a stock Mach with 4.30s on gatorbacks on the street. Ok lets play nice now.





Good sir, this little gem is sitting in my garage...

Yes, I've launched with sticky tires and 4.30s. I'm not a know-it-all teenager or a first time Mustang owner like the majority of the Mach 1 crowd. Quite the contrary. I've been racing stick cars for 20 years, this ain't my first time at the rodeo.

Never did I imply the sticky tires are pointless. I merely refuted the claim that 4.30s will increase wheelspin compared to 3.55s. This is absolutely not the case in the hands of a competent driver. Of course slicks are faster... and a car with slicks and 4.30s will be faster than a car with slicks and 3.55 gears. In all circumstances, a car with 4.30 gears will be quicker if the driver knows what he's doing. I know what I'm doing... do you?
I completly agree with that. Thats wasn't quite as clear in your earlier post as it seemed you and your buddy were arguing 4.30s and tires didn't matter at the track or street.

I disagree with TRXboy about your video. I thought it was great shifting.

NightOfTheCow 01-27-2009 07:58 PM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
I'm thinking about upgrading fairly soon... as long as I do alright on my tax return, the plan is to get a new T-56, and get the Viper 5th and 6th gear cluster. I'm debating whether or not I should go with 4.10 or 4.30. I also plan on a complete engine upgrade, more than likely with a twin turbo setup possibly this year if all goes as planned. Should I upgrade my gears, or should I wait on it until I do the engine/FI install? If I do upgrade, what would be the best ratio to go with? Right now, I'm not racing at all, and my Mach is my DD. From all I've read, gas mileage isn't going to be screwed totally with an upgrade... I'm just wondering what the pros/cons will be with a tranny swap, and what I'd be looking at as far as the numbers go (RPM/Speedo ranges).

one mach 1 01-28-2009 03:37 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightmeir (Post 1102743)
I'm thinking about upgrading fairly soon... as long as I do alright on my tax return, the plan is to get a new T-56, and get the Viper 5th and 6th gear cluster. I'm debating whether or not I should go with 4.10 or 4.30. I also plan on a complete engine upgrade, more than likely with a twin turbo setup possibly this year if all goes as planned. Should I upgrade my gears, or should I wait on it until I do the engine/FI install? If I do upgrade, what would be the best ratio to go with? Right now, I'm not racing at all, and my Mach is my DD. From all I've read, gas mileage isn't going to be screwed totally with an upgrade... I'm just wondering what the pros/cons will be with a tranny swap, and what I'd be looking at as far as the numbers go (RPM/Speedo ranges).
If you get the t-56 viper trans, you will need 4.56's!!! It has a real slow first gear.

R-code17815 01-28-2009 10:09 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange whip 04 (Post 361109)
Mach1 4R70W ratios as follows
2.84
1.55
1.00
0.70 (OD)


Manual
.62 ratio, 80mph, at X.XX:1 rear gear ratio

3.55 = 2304 rpm
3.73 = 2421 rpm
4.10 = 2661 rpm
4.30 = 2791 rpm
4.56 = 2960 rpm

top speed w/ 3.55s, 5th gear @ 6798 rpm = 236 mph
top speed w/ 3.73s, 5th gear @ 6780 rpm = 224 mph
top speed w/ 4.10s, 5th gear @ 6787 rpm = 204 mph
top speed w/ 4.30s, 5th gear @ 6769 rpm = 194 mph
top speed w/ 4.56s, 5th gear @ 6771 rpm = 183 mph

Auto
.70 ratio, 80mph, at X.XX:1 rear gear ratio

3.55 = 2602 rpm
3.73 = 2733 rpm
4.10 = 3005 rpm
4.30 = 3151 rpm
4.56 = 3342 rpm

top speed w/ 3.55, @ 5789 rpm = 178 mph
top speed w/ 3.73, @ 5775 rpm = 169 mph
top speed w/ 4.10, @ 5784 rpm = 154 mph
top speed w/ 4.30, @ 5791 rpm = 147 mph
top speed w/ 4.56, @ 5765 rpm = 138 mph
WOW, this chart almost make we wanna do 4.56's not 4.30's....

R-code17815 01-28-2009 10:10 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by knightmeir (Post 1102743)
I'm thinking about upgrading fairly soon... as long as I do alright on my tax return, the plan is to get a new T-56, and get the Viper 5th and 6th gear cluster. I'm debating whether or not I should go with 4.10 or 4.30. I also plan on a complete engine upgrade, more than likely with a twin turbo setup possibly this year if all goes as planned. Should I upgrade my gears, or should I wait on it until I do the engine/FI install? If I do upgrade, what would be the best ratio to go with? Right now, I'm not racing at all, and my Mach is my DD. From all I've read, gas mileage isn't going to be screwed totally with an upgrade... I'm just wondering what the pros/cons will be with a tranny swap, and what I'd be looking at as far as the numbers go (RPM/Speedo ranges).
Check with D&D Performance, you can get a Cobra-R T-56 with the lower 2.97 first gear vs. the vipers 2.66.

TRXboy 01-28-2009 10:22 AM
Re: 4.30's or 4.10
 
I never commented on the shifting - The driving was actually very well. I just would not call that a good launch. A good launch with stock tires sure, but far from a good launch.


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