2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club - Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/index.php)

- Engine & Drivetrain (Including trans & rear axles) (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64)

- - Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause. (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74655)

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by knightmeir (Post 959962)

I know this is a little late in posting... but this is a subject I've done a LOT of research on.

...and I have a very simple answer to why you don't hear much about the negatives of UD pulleys.

So many people swear by them, just like people swear by K&N, etc... but how often do you hear anything negative about them? And for the negative side effects, why don't you hear much about the negatives?

Because people spend a lot of money on such small mods, they don't want to openly admit they made a bad choice. Case in point: My K&N SUCKS. Literally and figuratively. It's not the best aftermarket CAI you can buy. I immediately started experiencing issues with stalling after installing it. Some other forum members here have talked about it. But I'm certain there are a larger number of people out there that refuse to say anything bad about it. They'll swear by it, knowing full well they've purchased garbage, just as I have.

As for the positives mentioned... ironically, the only things I see are an occasional honest opinion about how much of a gain someone got out of the install. And of course the unGodly amount of blasphemous overexaggerations of gains that only a supercharger install could rival.

Even with other bolt-ons, I'm sorry, but the gains aren't going to be multiplied. An intake spacer gaining you 4 HP isn't going to multiply your 3 HP gain from UD pulleys to 12 HP. You might get 7, and woohoo.

People are entirely too stubborn to admit that some things simply aren't worth it. Since they've spent money on it, they try to convince other people to spend money on it. If someone duped you into spending $300 on a bag of garbage, I'm sure you'd feel better about yourself if someone else did the same thing. I know I'd be thinking, "Thank God I'm not the only one in the world who made a bad choice."

Bottom line... a lot of the people on this forum have been at this with these particular cars since they first started shipping 'em out over 5 years ago. If they advise against doing something to it, I'm pretty sure their level of experiences with these matters is worth taking into serious consideration over false "scientific" statistics (due to consumer misinformation based on shame).

Very well stated. I agree in full. This is human psychology at its best, also its human nature to better things and improve its surroundings (yes even cars), and they may do so in vein at times and are even less likely to be truthful with them selves much less other people. So I guess what the poster above is saying is that just because somebody gives a +1 to something doesn't mean thats the fact, thats just simply what they believe to be true and in all actuality may in fact be to the contrary. This is where Imperial/Historical data helps, but when even this is skewed by human psychology it becomes useless. LOL, so where does this leave us? Square one. LOL, we need some unbiased test results here. Any brave enough to wanna risk their engine?

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337speed1337 (Post 959967)

Very well stated. I agree in full. This is human psychology at its best, also its human nature to better things and improve its surroundings (yes even cars), and they may do so in vein at times and are even less likely to be truthful with them selves much less other people. So I guess what the poster above is saying is that just because somebody gives a +1 to something doesn't mean thats the fact, thats just simply what they believe to be true and in all actuality may in fact be to the contrary. This is where Imperial/Historical data helps, but when even this is skewed by human psychology it becomes useless. LOL, so where does this leave us? Square one. LOL, we need some unbiased test results here. Any brave enough to wanna risk their engine?

Same rules apply for the hypothesis that was made regarding UDP and Oil pump failures.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

OK now I'm confused. Did NASA or Einstein put a K&N filter and UDP on their car?

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WIKD (Post 960544)

OK now I'm confused. Did NASA or Einstein put a K&N filter and UDP on their car?

hahaha, Yes they did. Except what they used is way better than K&N and UDP's :butt:

For those of you who thought this was serious.... Its not. It was merely a poor attempt at humor.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1337speed1337 (Post 960546)

hahaha, Yes they did. Except what they used is way better than K&N and UDP's :butt:

So you still consider UDP's as a culprit? I beg to differ on that. Theres more to this than meets the eye. Its a vague suggestion that has this community in a civil war.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach007 (Post 960548)

So you still consider UDP's as a culprit? I beg to differ on that. Theres more to this than meets the eye. Its a vague suggestion that has this community in a civil war.

I don't know one way or the other. Thats what i'm here to find out...

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach007 (Post 960548)

So you still consider UDP's as a culprit? I beg to differ on that. Theres more to this than meets the eye. Its a vague suggestion that has this community in a civil war.

Attempting to shroud the issue in mystery is a new approach. You must be getting desperate in the absence of any sensible defense for UDP's.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmhutch (Post 960907)

Attempting to shroud the issue in mystery is a new approach. You must be getting desperate in the absence of any sensible defense for UDP's.

Heres an idea! Collect the data through observation and experimentation, than formulate and test the hypothesis and surprise us with the outcome.

"People observe what they expect to observe, until shown otherwise; our beliefs will affect our observations (and therefore our subsequent actions). The purpose of the scientific method is to test a hypothesis, a belief about how things are, via repeatable experimental observations which can contradict the hypothesis so as to fight this observer bias."

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder (Post 960966)

I don't have to turn on the lights when I get up to pee first thing in the morning.:smokin: .......................and I never "do it" in the dark.:23:

:23: :23:

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach007 (Post 961073)

LOL, don’t cry because I called you on your crap. You displayed a misunderstanding of the issue from your first post and resorting to vague references and name calling only reinforces the fact that you are desperate to assert knowledge in an area of which you are not familiar.

There is an appropriate time and place to apply the processes that you speak of. However, nobody here has the time, resources or desire to put a set of pullies through a 10 point failure analysis.

Making decisions without applying a 10 point analysis every time is what grownups have to do every day. There are times when we have to rely on our own personal experience and the observations of experts in the field. Deciding on whether or not to risk destroying several thousand dollars worth of equipment for 4 – 5 horsepower is one of those times. I suspect at some point in your life you will realize this.

And stop referring to “us”. There is no “us”. It’s just YOU ignoring post after post of common sense. The only reason people continue to respond to you is because you are misleading a lot of otherwise well intended enthusiast into believing UDP’s are completely safe in a high revving DOHC engine.

All this time spent arguing a moot point should be focused on contributing something useful to the community, not destructive. If all you want to do is win an argument regardless of facts, choose something that doesn’t have potentially damaging and costly results for others.

At your request I will repeat what I, and others have already said. Not for your sake because you are sure to ignore the facts, but for those who don’t have time to read 5 pages of denial.

Observation 1: Steeda underdrive pullies have been measured and found to be out of round.
Observation 2: It has been “observed” that engine vibration has decreased when Steeda underdrives were replaced with the proper size.
Observation 3: Oil pump drive surfaces on DOHC crankshafts have shown damage from increased harmonics when underdrive pullies were used.

This is called “circumstantial evidence”. It is often used in criminal courts to establish guilt or innocence through REASONING. Reasoning is something you need to polish up on. If it is considered credible enough to send someone to the gas chamber than I think we can reasonably rely on it to decide whether or not to use a set of underdrive pulleys on a Mustang.

Todd

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Folks, I know this topic is somewhat "religious" but let's keep it on track, ok?

And I request that anyone cutting and pasting large quotes from other sources please credit those sources with a URL.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

wouldn't the simple solution to this be to just upgrade the oil pump at the same time?? or is that too "scientific" for all of you guys??

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder (Post 964819)

Ummmmmmm...................do you have any idea what you must do to install an oil pump?:smack: :23: :23: ............or is that too "scientific" for you?:3amin:

dang you just got told. :claus:

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder (Post 964819)

Ummmmmmm...................do you have any idea what you must do to install an oil pump?:smack: :23: :23: ............or is that too "scientific" for you?:3amin:

not at all too "scientific", i just figured if you're really that paranoid and "need" the benefit of the UDPs that it would be the solution...

on that note, after i made that post, i started searching, and it's hard as hell to find gears for our oil pumps... would it be those of a cobra? or is this something that ford made specific for each 4v mod motor?

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by my fear (Post 964828)

dang you just got told. :claus:

told? no.

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach1Marauder (Post 964845)

Ok..............You want to install UD dampner, but you want to install my oilpump with billet gears.............Walk me thru it.:3amin:

i don't have the instructions in front of me, nor do i plan on doing it, but i'm the type of person that if i was going to go with UDPs and wanted to be safe, i'd go with the oil pump gears...

also, i don't care how long/difficult something is as long as it gets done...

also, just out of curiosity, do you try to be a **** in every post you make or is it just a coincidence?

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

I don't think there is ever gonna be a solid yes or no for this, for as many people who say NO, there is just as many people who who say YES.

Billet oil pumps are around 350-400 depending on where you buy them.

If you want every last horsepower and dont want UDP's get an electric water pump....

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by R-code17815 (Post 964853)

found some for a cobra for $282 (pre-shipping), and that's why i was asking because i didn't think that was a terrible price and after seeing that, i definitely think that's not a bad price...

Re: Under Drive Pulleys..and the problems they cause.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mach1metalhead (Post 964851)

also, just out of curiosity, do you try to be a **** in every post you make or is it just a coincidence?

If he didn't we'd think he was sick!!!

:23: :smokin: