2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club

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-   -   FYI on exhaust systems (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28878)

Orange whip 04 01-15-2005 10:36 PM

FYI on exhaust systems
 
I thought I would take a few minutes and express my opinions of exhaust systems and for people that are trying to decide what they want in a exhaust system.
In todays 03 and 04 mach1's there are three basic parts to the exhaust system.
Exhaust manifolds/headers. However they resemble that of exhaust manifolds to me. The catted H mid-pipe which is the middle section of the exhaust that holds your converters and 02 sensors. And lastly, the "Cat Back" as most people call them which is of course the last part of the exhaust which contains your mufflers, tail pipes and exhaust tips.
When we are contemplating a exhaust upgrade we should consider a few things. First of all lets think of the engine as a big air pump. More air that enters the engine needs to exit quickly with the least amount of restriction in order to create more horse power (Air in.. Air out). To achieve this we allow for bigger exhaust systems. Meaning, upgrading to bigger exhaust pipes
(2 1/4) to
(2 1/2) or 3 inch, removing the converters and deciding what mufflers have high CFM flow rates. Higher CFM flow rates will allow less restrictions. By making all these combined upgrades we are also decreasing the heat and high back pressures with in the system. With less heat and less back pressure we are allowing the air pump (engine) to work more efficiently at higher rates of effort which will free up horse power at the same time. The down fall from this is that we may lose some low end torque. I consider this a small disadvantage since torque could be made up in other areas of the engine. All these are aspects in deciding performance for your exhaust.

Alot of people are looking for exhaust tones and higher sound levels in a exhaust system. Less restrictions in a exhaust system will alow the exhaust to emit louder exhaust levels. A huge part of why a engine is quiet is because of the fact that cats are in place and mufflers with low CFM rates keep sound levels at bay. It seems almost sacreligeous to have a mustang mach1 sound as quiet as it does from the factory. Thank god for aftermarket exhaust systems. In most cases the mufflers (chambered & straight through), resonators, packs, will set the tone for your exhaust. Depending on there CFM rate they also can allow for louder sound levels as well. Here are some simple guide lines to follow when considering a exhaust system.

Offroad mid H = Absolute loudest aside from open headers, retains classic muscle car tone.

Offroad mid X = Absolute loudest aside from open headers, retains a Euro/Raspy exhaust tone no matter what cat back or mufflers have been installed. This is because of the X design that it sounds the way it does.

MAC prochamber = A design that incorperates both H and X pipe technology but shares no physical characteristics between the H and X pipe. This pipe will also retain the classic muscle car tone and should be considered as a off road pipe since it does not have cats. Though, a catted version is avaliable.

All three mid pipes are loud but your choice of a cat back or type of mufflers will determine how loud the total system is. If you are installing one of the off road mid pipes and are also considering a cat back system, now is the time to decide how loud you want it to be. With this in mind the only two mufflers i have heard that will quiet the mid pipes down are the stock mufflers and the regular performance magnaflows. All other mufflers/resonators/packs that i have heard be it either chambered or straight through designs seem to be loud and are frightfully exciting.

If you are deciding to just upgrade the cat back, aisde from open pipes or no mufflers, you can install just about any chambered or straight through muffler, resonator or pack and the sound levels will be some what managable. Many people decide that this is not enough sound level for them so they go with a offroad pipe or performance catted pipe for the extra sound level. Here are some more guide lines: Cat backs / mufflers

Chambered mufflers = Sets exhaust tone, can effect sound level depending on higher or lower CFM rates. Manufactures exhaust sound signature varies. Chambered mufflers have areas with in that contain aranged blocked sections which causes the exhaust to bounce off each other before they exit through. Think of this as a maze. Some chambered mufflers are loud like for example the 2 chamber Flowmasters. This type of muffler has a distinctive sound which many desire.

Straight through muffler designs = Sets exhaust tone, can effect sound levels and higher CFM rates are more prevelant. Straight through designs are typicaly louder than chambered mufflers and contain perferated areas with in the pipe along with revolving steel wool packing for example, the Dynomax race magnums which also have there own distinctive tone. Manufactures exhaust sound signature varies.

Resonators / Packs = Sets exhaust tone, will effect sound levels, higher CFM rates are more prevelant. Since resonators and packs are not considered mufflers many of them do retain straight through designs. They do not have chambers or areas of exhaust storage which will effect the exhaust tone in a different way. The straight through design in reguards to the resonator has a shaped pipe through the center which again, effects the exhaust tone. These types of resonators and packs are also considered loud Since they are close to open pipes.

Hope this helps guys. If you want to add your thoughts and concerns please feel free to add it in the post. Thanks

Orange whip 04 01-15-2005 11:13 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
I would like to further elaborate in a few other areas. Since i already talked about the performance and sound aspect. I would also consider the fitment, cost and weight factors as well. Many manufactures are becoming better at the fitment game. Some of us iam sure suffered greatly while trying to install cat back systems and mid pipes. I dont want to get into the cost since that all varies between place to place but i think we all agree that affordable prices are what everyone wants. Everyone is always looking for a deal. Another factor for some is the wieght of a cat back system or mid pipe. I guess the only difference would be how much more metal one mid pipe has compared to another. Less weight might be more desireable for some while stainless steel is sought for non corrosive and durability. You could probably shed as much as 50 or 60 pounds by eliminating catted pipes and use a offroad pipe. Or perhaps an all aluminum exhaust system might be a benefit for weight reduction.
So, to recap, when we look into having an upgraded exhaust think about
Performance
Sound
Fitment
Cost
Wieght
It would be ideal to have all these qualitys in a cat back or mid pipe however, it is hard to find an all in one package that is true to what the manufacture says it is. Many have fitment problems with there system. So, do your home work guys.

BLUEOVALBOY 01-16-2005 10:21 AM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
"With less heat and less back pressure we are allowing the air pump (engine) to work more efficiently at higher rates of effort which will free up horse power at the same time."

Clarification on less heat:

You do not want the exhaust running cooler, By replacing with high flow headers or h-pipe with stainless steel or ceramic coatings this will let less heat escape ,keeping the engine compartment cooler. But intern it will keep the heat in the exhaust, which will increase the flow and cut down on scavaging.

Lonestar 7 01-17-2005 02:51 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
You can make your article less winded two words Borla Stingers. LOL

Orange whip 04 01-17-2005 03:49 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
I know, it was a bit long wasnt it? I was a roll.. lol

Lonestar 7 01-17-2005 04:21 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Yeah LOL good info though.

Mr Scary 01-18-2005 05:25 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Orange Whip.....PMed you...thanks

gotmach 01-22-2005 07:05 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
After I read all that I was exhausted!!!! LOL

04DSG Mach 01-22-2005 07:07 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Thanks alot, thats a great overview.

wolfstang360 01-23-2005 02:50 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
X-pipe Question... I've installed a BBK X-pipe with flowmaster 40 series and sounds are great at idle. When I open the throttle up a quarter or higher it sounds like I have a rattle in the system. I've taken it to my local shop and they could not find anything loose and no solution. Oh yea it also does it when I crank it up. Does any one have any insight on this? I no my worst fear is I will have to replace it all with another system.
thanks in advance

Orange whip 04 01-23-2005 08:36 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
If you think it is related to the exhaust I want to suggest that perhaps you might have a possible cracked or broken subtraight with in the cats, maybe a piece of the substraight is just bouncing around inside the cat which will not escape unless it fully crumbles apart. That is if your still using cats. I can also suggest that a broekn piece of the chamber might be rattleing around inside your flowmaster. Does the rattle happen over bumps ? It could be the pipes rattleing, rubbing, underneath body and you might not see this with the load off the wheels. Or perhaps the rattle is unrelated to the exhaust. Could be another part of the car that is rattleing in which the people looking at your mach may have thought they were looking for an exhaust rattle. They must be able to verufie the rattle first in order to make the repair. That is all i can think of.

wolfstang360 01-24-2005 08:13 AM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Hey thank you for the insight. More info, I have no cats on and I got under the car with them while on the lift and revved it up and still the same noise comes from the flowmasters. Surely both of them could not be broken could they? COuld it be to much flow hitting them? I'm supposed to take it back to the shop this week for futher inspection. I'm at a loss here.

Orange whip 04 01-24-2005 07:15 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfstang360
Hey thank you for the insight. More info, I have no cats on and I got under the car with them while on the lift and revved it up and still the same noise comes from the flowmasters. Surely both of them could not be broken could they? COuld it be to much flow hitting them? I'm supposed to take it back to the shop this week for futher inspection. I'm at a loss here.


Anything is possible. Did you by the flowmaster used or new? If i had to take a guess i would say that you got a bad batch of flowmaster in which they may have not been welded completely. Perhaps what your hearing is a piece of the chamber or chunk of steel rattleing around inside. It is not because of the flow that caused it to break. Sounds like this was a pre-asssembly deffect. The only other thing i can think of and this is a long shot...the engine spits out quite a bit of water and since the flowmaster are great for trapping this water inside the chambers, it has no where to go but to sit inside the chamber and rust. Some water makes it out but the flows dont have tiny drip holes to let the water out if it becomes excessive. Perhaps the rust ate away at one or two chamber walls and they eventualy broke thus causing the rattle. ??? But it surely sounds like a flowmaster problem at this point. Iam sitcking with the broken chamber wall by pre-assembly defect therory.

wolfstang360 01-25-2005 11:28 AM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Yeah, I think it's a muffler issue as well and I'm having them changed today at no cost to me. I hope this solves my problem otherwise I'll be looking for another set up.

Mach14u 01-25-2005 10:59 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by wolfstang360
X-pipe Question... I've installed a BBK X-pipe with flowmaster 40 series and sounds are great at idle. When I open the throttle up a quarter or higher it sounds like I have a rattle in the system. I've taken it to my local shop and they could not find anything loose and no solution. Oh yea it also does it when I crank it up. Does any one have any insight on this? I no my worst fear is I will have to replace it all with another system.
thanks in advance


I had the exact same thing! It sounded like it was coming from the back but it wasn't...A buddy of mine jacked it up and put 3 washers somewhere around the headers and it hasn't done since...sorry I dont know exactly where but Im not too mechanically inclined.

Mach&Roll 04-27-2005 09:34 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
My light is still on. I am not happy with my exhaust at all.

04comporgmach1 05-02-2005 06:43 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
i must say that was a great bit of info

mongoose 05-02-2005 07:37 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Wow,after reading all that,I think I'll just put the rear seat backs down,and leave the stock exhaust alone. Great info though,I think this thread just saved me a ton of cash! :worship:

ruggersmach 05-02-2005 08:00 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Orange, what are your thoughts on changing out the mid-pipe only with a MRT catted H-pipe and leaving the stock cat-back and exhaust manifold? :hail1:

Orange whip 04 05-02-2005 08:49 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ruggersmach
Orange, what are your thoughts on changing out the mid-pipe only with a MRT catted H-pipe and leaving the stock cat-back and exhaust manifold? :hail1:


My personal thoughts are that the catted peformance mid pipes are an ideal situation in those areas where emission testing is a big problem. Some areas like where i live are not which means i can virtualy do anything to the exhaust as i want and only have to worry if a cop is going to give me a ticket for a loud exhaust. I guess that would be the first question you have to ask yourself. Second, what are the benefits? Though, the catted performance mid pipes flow a little better, i dont believe that they give that much more in performance over stock. And i have heard or seen by other members that they actualy have had problems with the substraight material crack under extreme circumstances. Iam sure some people can show some slight advantages in there numbers with dyno results. The catted performance mid pipes will be a little louder as well, but not as loud as the offroad mids. Some people might think that the catted versions are not as loud as they want and end up going with the offroad versions. I guess thats just a prefrence. The fact here is, there is still an obstruction with in the exhaust system that wont allow the full potential of the exhaust system which means your not getting the full blown power out of your engine that everyone wants. Although, some people are happy with that situation. Additionaly, it would be to your advantage to keep the system uniform, meaning that you should either keep the exhaust pipe at 2.25 (2 1/4), 2.50 (2 1/2), or even 3 inch if you can find that size. Your stock setup is 2.25. you can further your power rating with an all 2.5 inch pipe all the way out back. Today, exhaust manifold technology is far better than what it use to be back in the 70's 80's and 90's. Though some will argure with me that they believe they get big results from headers. The stock headers are good up to 600 horse and flow extremely well for stock. And i dont believe they need to be changed for street applications. Unless you are a full out drag racer in which every HP point counts, that would be the only time i would even bother changing headers. Plus, you cant see them on a 4 vlave engine anyways, so the bling bling is out. And it takes about 8 hours to change just one side for the average joe blow guy. Not a big advantage for 12 horse, if that. Lastly, I would consider what you want out of your exhaust system. Sound level, tone, price, performance values, reputation of manufacture, fit and installation. Or all of the above. If you just want to give your exhaust system some tone and a little extra sound level with a little added performance, any of the cat back systems will do just fine. If you want the full potential of your exhaust system, change the factory mid to a offroad mid of your choice as long as there is no emission factor involved or if you want to take the chance that you might have ticket happy police in your area. And replace the cat back which will inhance the tone. Of course, the sound level may need to be adjusted to your prefrence. Packs, resonators, or mufflers that have few chambers in them, Along with straight through designs that have little to no packing material inside are going to be louder in nature and will have higher CFM flow rates. Mufflers or straight through designs that have more chambers or packing material inside will provide a quieter senerio but have lower CFM flow rates. The best thing i can suggest is to do your research and think about what you want out of your system.

Mach&Roll 05-07-2005 04:31 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Man you write some good info shane. You guys need to listen to that bit of advice. He has helped me out a lot with my problem although no solution has shown itself yet.

TheWaterSkier 05-09-2005 03:00 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
There is a lot of good information in this thread. I would add one more thing for those considering the off/road mid-pipe option.

Most probably already know this at least in the back of their minds.

Check on your State's penalties for removing the Cats. It can be mild or extreme depending on the state. The Federal regulations are for all states and impose a $1500.00 fine on the installer (either the shop who installed the off/road mid-pipe or you if you did it.

In Florida, there is a $500.00 fine for running on the street with on off/road mid-pipe.

There is at least one state where manditory impound of the vehicle and possible auction of the vehicle is possible.

For the couple of HP difference, I'll go with Cats on a Mid-Pipe change. Keep in mind, that the law actually reads "Removing of a functioning catalytic converter is not permitted." So even replacing the stock cats with a catted after market pipe is technically illegal.

If you're not stopped and no one looks, then it obviously doesn't matter what you have. However, if I'm stopped and they decide to look, I'm at least going to have cats....

A lot of people run the off road mid-pipes on this forum and freely recommend them to others. I have no problem with that, but thought you might want to consider that a louder exhaust means a higher probability of being stopped and "checked out." At least one member of this forum was stopped for "too loud," and when they found no cats, fined him and forced him to return the vehicle to stock condition and offer proof back to the court.

End of my 2 cents....

ruggersmach 05-09-2005 08:33 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Does the MRT H-pipe bolt directly on to the stock exhaust manifolds and stock catback or is there some sort of adapter needed?

Orange whip 04 05-09-2005 10:49 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by ruggersmach
Does the MRT H-pipe bolt directly on to the stock exhaust manifolds and stock catback or is there some sort of adapter needed?

The MRT H pipe will bolt directly up to the factory manifolds and to the stock cat back. However, since the MRT H pipe is 2 1/2 inch outlets to the rear they wont match up correctly to the 2 1/4 inlet of the factory cat back. You may have to open that end up to match the mid pipe size. An exhaust leak could ensue because of this. That would be the only issue that i can think of that could be a problem. No adapters are needed.

Mach&Roll 05-13-2005 02:41 PM

Re: FYI on exhaust systems
 
Hey shane the light has been of for almost 60 miles now. It is such a good felling. Their was this one set of wires that were not in their proper mounting holes and then I also switched the mills from side to side and since then it all has seemed to work out pretty good. Iam finally ready for the next mod or a summr vacation.


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