Originally Posted by JRKANOT

I would make the stop and have the conversation. In your scenario if everything checked out (not drunk or wanted, drug possession,illegal alien, etc.) and you explained it to me as you did in your post I would just give a verbal warning.

Assuming you must have seen the patrol car if the patrolman saw you make this move I now have two questions. 1.Why after seeing the patrol car did you run the light? and 2.After being stopped and talked, to and receiving the warning, how much time did you actually save? Not saying you did any of this just replying to the post as if you did.

Sorry so long but if you pull up to a signal at 3am and you see a cop don't run the light. If you do..... expect to be stopped.... because the officer has a duty to check into the situation.

Originally Posted by MvCrash

If you are a cop, were a cop, live with a cop, or

are close to a cop you will recognize alot of the

following:



FASCINATION STAGE - 1st thru 4th year of Law

Enforcement.



For most officers, this is their first time outside

of the middle class bubble. They have never seen a

dead body, never seen life-threatening injuries,

never dealt with a family disturbance, never

witnessed the squalor some people call "living

life", and never really understood the phrase "Man's

Inhumanity To Man" until now.



Everything is new to them. You can ID them by the

amount of fancy new equipment they carry...a ten

BILLION candlelight power flashlight,

"state-of-the-art" holster, pens that write in the

rain, a ballistic vest rated to stop Tomahawk

missiles, and an equipment bag large enough to house

a squad of Marines. They love it, showing up early

for their shift. They work way past the end of their

shift without even considering an OT slip. They

believe rank within the department is based only on

ability and those in the upper ranks got there by

knowledge and skill in police work only.



They believe the Department runs with the same

attention to detail and efficiency as Joe Friday's

Dragnet TV show....everyone is dedicated &

committed, everyone is competent, and everyone is on

the same page and working towards the same

high-minded goals. When they finally go home to

their spouse/significant other, they tell them

everything they did and saw; they are wired up. Some

of the more "eaten up" purchase a police scanner at

Radio Shack so they can hear the radio calls while

at home.



HOSTILITY STAGE - 4th thru 6th year



They now show up for work about 2 minutes before

their shift, and they are hiding out about 30

minutes before end of shift, writing reports

so they can just throw them in the sergeant's in-box

and leave ASAP. They have to get to their second job

to earn money to pay for the divorce that is

pending. Their spouse is no longer interested in

hearing about all the gore and heartache. They get

the "you spend more time with the cops than you do

with me" speech. They now know how the lieutenant

got those silver bars on his collar. They consider

the FOP, the city, and all brass to be as dangerous

as any viper. They gripe about everything, drink

excessively, chase women, and hate the public,

politicians, media, etc. They feel they have more in

common with the hookers, thieves, dopers, etc. but

hate them too.



Those pens that write in the rain are no longer

needed. Writing traffic citations can be a lot more

trouble than they are worth, even on a nice day To

write one, or to write anything while standing in

the rain, is a sure sign of an insane person.



SUPERIORITY STAGE - 7th thru 15th years



This is when cops are at their best. They have

survived changes in administration. They know how

the political game is played, both inside and

outside of the department. They know who they can

trust and who they can't. They have select friends

within the department, and stay away, as best they

can, from the nuts and boot-lickers. They know the

legal system, the judges, prosecutors, defense

attorneys, etc. They know how to testify and put a

good case together. They are usually the ones that

the brass turns to when there is some clandestine

request or sensitive operation that needs to be done

right.



These cops are still physically fit and can handle

themselves on the street. They will stay around the

station when needed, but have other commitments;

such as a second job, a second spouse, a second

boyfriend/girlfriend (sometimes both), etc. They

have most of their friends outside of Law

Enforcement now.



ACCEPTANCE STAGE - 15th to????







Now the cops have a single objective... retirement

and pension. Nothing is going to come between them

and their monthly check. The boss, the city (or

State, or county), the idiots around the station,

and the creeps on the street can all go to hell...

because they could come between them and "sitting on

the beach". There is no topic of discussion that

can't somehow lead back to retirement issues. These

guys are usually sergeants, detectives, crime scene

technicians, station duty, or some other post where

they will not be endangered.







They especially don't want some young stupid cop

getting them sued, fired, killed, or anything else

causing them to lose their "beach time". These guys

are usually hard to find when the "clusters" hit.

They spend a lot of time having coffee, hanging

around the station, and looking at brochures of

things they want to do in retirement. Then the

retired cop usually dies within the first five years

of retirement, saving the city (or State, or county)

a bunch of money.

Originally Posted by 8616v

I should have clarified, but i assumed that i didn't see the patrol car, because had i seen it i would have just waited to avoid the potential for that very situation. Getting stoped would not have saved anytime and probably would have cost more time and aggrivation for both parties that it was worth.


To respond to streakn...there is no emergency i have recently spent alot of time siting at stoplights later in the evening watching an emtpy intersections with no traffic and realized just how much of my life has been wasted over the years(granted i'm only24 so...) waiting at an emtpy intersection. I've decided, pehaps ignorantly, that my time is to valuable to waste at an empty intersection and that i'm not going to wait anymore...now if i see a car even 1/2 a mile away i'll wait but if i'm the only car i can see...i'm not waiting.

Originally Posted by MACHrophage

That is not going to fly in court b/c an officer is a "trained observer." Courts generally find that due to an officers occupation his/her ability to accurately observe and recall is better than average...

Originally Posted by 01TruBluGT

That’s BS. Traffic court is just like criminal court, if there is reasonable doubt the Judge cannot find you guilty.



Just because someone wears a badge does not make what they say in court hold any more weight than your average Joe. .

Originally Posted by 01TruBluGT

That’s BS. Traffic court is just like criminal court, if there is reasonable doubt the Judge cannot find you guilty.

I beat 4 tickets in three different court systems based on the same thing. An officer on the stand's word of "opinion" is just that opinion not fact and in our justice system matter of opinion is not enough for a guilty verdict.

Just because someone wears a badge does not make what they say in court hold any more weight than your average Joe. The United States justice system is based on facts and evidence, not educated guesses and or opinions. I am an estimator for a construction company, I take measurements all day long does that make my sense of distance is any better than the next guy? I mean no disrespect to any officers, I have friends that are police officers and almost became one myself, but still their word is not the end all be all. I have had ALOT of tickets in my day so I know my way around them as well as the legalities involved. I just hate when I see people say oh well I got a ticket for something I wasn't doing but the judge is not going to believe me over the officer so I will just go ahead and pay it. This is what the system is based on, you not wanting to fight it and just paying it.

Originally Posted by Starsky

My word against his word. Happens all the time. Now in fairness, there has been the ocassion when the judge felt sorry for the defendant for any variety of reasons and found in their favor, though I would put it at 1 in 30 times.

Originally Posted by 01TruBluGT

Well like I said if you have something that will make the judge think for a second. If I walked in and simply said "well I was doing the speed limit your honor" I doubt that would work at all. Lets face it the more traffic tickets that get paid the better chance the Judge has at getting a raise. But if there is a plausable reason an officer pointing the finger saying they did it should hold no more weight than a regular citizen saying he didn't do it. Example:

I was traveling south at about 70. There is an area on this road that goes from 65mph to a 45mph on a dime. Flew into the 45 doing 70. An officer was heading north on the same road. As soon as I passed him he made a U and hit the lights. Well I went to court on this one for sure. I asked the officer if there was a possibility that he had seen another car speeding and that once he turned around since I was the one in front of him he figured it was me. He said "I know it was you because I didn't take my eyes off of the car". So then I asked if we were closing on each other at 120mph at 3:30am in the dark. Then he had to stop his car, tun it around and begin to come after me how did he not take his eyes off of me. Since he had no answer, and clearly there was time for another vehicle to be in the area the Judge threw it out

Originally Posted by 01TruBluGT

I am not disputing the fact that in the real world an officers stated opinion is almost always taken as fact.

In reality acording to the way the law is written, opinions should bare no weight in a courtroom to the point of a verdict being based on that same opinion. However the more guilty verdicts passed down, the more money for the system.

I have beaten countless tickets with simple common sense vs. the officers testimony. The funny part is I live in a city where corruption is almost a way of life but it seems to me that our traffic court system is almost too fair to the average citizen.

Don't get me wrong if an officer says you did it and the best you can do is say you didn't well you are screwed, but if you can come with more than I didn't do it, 8 out of 10 times you are found not guilty.

Perfect example. I was in the right hand lane, getting ready to make a right turn at the intersection, well about 20' before the intersection ther eis a turning lane. As I got into the turning lane a guy on a bicycle was riding in the middle of the lane. I got as far into the lane as I could and made the turn. As soon as I did, lights come on in the rearview. Ticket for illegal turn, and improper lane useage. Well in the courtroom I asked the officer about the guy on the bike and they admitted that there was a person taking up the lane. So I asked why did I get a ticket. The officer said because more than 50% of my car was in the wrong lane. I asked how did they know it was 50%. The officer said that it appeared to him that more than 50% of my car was in the wrong lane. since there was no proof that 50% or more of my car was in the wrong lane the judge dissmissed the case.

Originally Posted by Fenixfire

... Be aware though, many cruisers have video cameras attached to the dash. The patrol vehicles that I operate do and they start rolling once I get on shift till I get off shift. They can record for 12 hours straight and they get a new battery and dvd every shift so they see everything. Just know next time you ask "where is the proof?" dont be surprised if they pull out a tape showing your actions.

Every case that I have to go to court and testify it is policy that the video of my shift with the case in question be taken to court as well as added evidence. Im a federal cop though, so im not sure of others that may do this.

Originally Posted by kevsrcode

I agree 100%. As a shift supervisor, in my experience, the cameras tend to clear officers of (inaccurate) accusations of wrong doing more often than they show the officers doing anything wrong. The cameras are a great officer safety tool, and, as a by product, they produce great evidence in court.

Originally Posted by streakn

I'll agree to some of your opinions and disagree with the other's. I won't expand on anything as I don't want this to become a unproductive arguement. But I respect your opinion. :yeh: