Re: NASCAR thread
 

Please tell me you are kidding. Last time I knew BMW, Mercedes, Volvo, etc, etc were never cheaper than US cars. They were better.

It was labor unions and the government that had to step in and mandate how the US worker would be treated. Most manufacturing companies didn't do it out us the goodness of their own heart and it wasn't until the 70's that we started caring about air quality. If companies were really concerned about worker safety and health we wouldn't need OHSA or MHSA. Big business only cares about the bottom line, PROFIT.

I have no pity for a company that pockets or wastes all the money rather than re-investing it and then gets stomped by the company that continued to develop its products, processes, and returned some of that money to the workers so they do a better job and care about the product they make.

I can't stand jobs going over seas but I refuse to P*** my money away to buy a product I know is inferior, which by the way 9 out of 10 times an American made product is not even an option.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

At least they were nice enough to make Jr's new #88. That way one would only have to have another 8 tatooed. Now the people that got a Bud tatoo on the other hand are screwed. Hope they like Khane and can route for a Dodge.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Since you're bringing up things from 100 years ago,
why not bring up slavery too?
Things change.
The Japs have copied everything the Americans do,
with the exception of winning wars.
They have not had an original thought once.
They steal others' ideas and gullible people think they are better.
NOT!

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I won't argue that point. I actually never understood the whole rebuilding a country that attacked us with the most modern technology. We deserve a big old :smack: for that one. And yes they do steal others ideas and improve on them. Our problem is we design it and never improve on it until we are forced to while at the same time crying foul. Everyone knows if you want to stay the best you have to keep working hard. Some where along the line we decided we are the best and that is that so we stopped working to remain the best.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Ive always liked Stewart and will continue when he moves to his own team.
The reason I liked him is the reason Kyle has grown on me, attitude. If I was a driver I would be the same way. I think Busch gets a bad wrap but he seems like a good guy. He drives tons of short track charity races for nothing and has even drove truck races for free. Time will tell though as usally it always ends up being about the $$$.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Kyle is just like Dale Sr. You even loved him or hated him. People seem to forget that Sr would wreck someone if he couldn't pass them and then in the interview say it was the other drivers fault for not letting him pass them. To be the star of Nascar you either need to have the looks, the lack of proper pronucniation, or an attitude on the track. The more succesful drivers have the attitude. Ever listen to Jeff Gordon on the radio during a race, not quite the same guy you see in the interviews. Kyle just hasn't learned to flip that switch yet. I don't watch much Nascar anymore (my way of saying **** Nascar and Toyota) but Kyle can drive a car.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Ok it is time for bristol Iam taking Carl 99#

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Kyle is just like Dale Sr. :confused: :confused:

You don't seem to know much about Ralph Earnhardt's son. :23:

http://www.earnhardtnation.com/ralph_earnhardt.html

He WAS more like his dad than you can imagine. My dad was a racer with Ralph and has on more than one occasion bought food for Ralph and Dale at the track. I remember camping with them in the early to mid 60's at Darlington, it was a struggle for everyone to afford those trips. To compare Dale to shrub is nuts in everyway way except the "winning" thing.

Go to Wal-Mart and spend $13 on the tin full of "Dale" DVD's. If anything, it paints a pretty picture of his early life. Let's see every crew come out to give congrats to shrub (or anyone else) winning the Daytona 500!!!! It ain't gonna happen and there was good reason for it. Keep in mind, I'm not even an Earnhardt fan. :23:

Why was Big E great: 17th with 4 laps to go and he pulls off the win. Check out the vid, I saw it in person and it was remarkable.
<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/0TR607FDog0&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/0TR607FDog0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Re: NASCAR thread
 

And here come the penalties...

http://www.nascar.com/2008/news/head...ies/index.html

:borg:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I think the penalties were a bit soft.
They should have taken more points away.
Oil cap falls off, 100 point deduction.
Intentionally placing parts to mess with ASSCAR's data, 150?
Should have been 500.
Fine should have been 500 grand.
That would get the cheaters' attention.
Gee, ya think the Toilettas will get booed at Bristol?

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Booed? I'd be more surprised if they don't get shot at!
The 'indefinite' suspension of the crew chiefs is probably the best attention getter. I don't think the $ is ever the part of the penalty that hurts the overall group. I also thing the points fine could have been bigger (that will impact them monitarily more at the end of the season), and I wish the actual teams would have been suspended from racing for at least one race.

:borg:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

:agree:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Not really, they got basically the same penalty as Truex who brought an illegal car to the the track with the intent of racing it.

I agree that by Nascar's rules hiding your true HP is cheating and they should be punished but which is worse? Hiding the HP level of a legal car or running a car that you know is illegal. I have yet to hear Nascar say the cars dynoed to high without the magnets.

As stated before I am not a Toyota fan and can't stand them being in Nascar but the penalties should fit the crime.

Hey G, the only reason Dale Sr got so much admiration after winning the 500 is because it took him so long to do it. I'd wager to say the same admiration would be shown to any driver that goes that long before winning it.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I agree. :yes:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Not a Toyota fan yet you do your best to back them on every post..

Hiding the horsepower of a legal car????? Too much horsepower makes the car illegal so hiding horsepower and legal car do not go together. And as you said the same penalty for a guy who tries to cheat as opposed to a team that did cheat the entire season...

Re: NASCAR thread
 

History will show that Jack Roush was right.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Show me one thing that says the cars dynoed too high without the magnets and how have they cheated the whole season? Everything I read said they were trying to exaggerate the impact of the rule change, which is cheating but is far from the crime some of you guys are trying to make it out to be. True sports are about being fair, including the penalties. Kicking Toyoyta out of Nascar for what these two teams did is obserbed. Nascar ****** up when they let Toyota in and they and everyone else is going to have to live with that decision.

There is only one difference between a guy who gets caught trying to cheat and one who is found to have been cheating and that is timing.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Like I said, Jack Roush was right.
ASSCAR gave away the farm trying to get Toiletta into the series.
All that ASSCAR did was perpetuate their own eventual failure.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Couldn't agree more. I prefer going to a local dirt track as to watching Nascar. At least that is still real racing and not an overhyped IROC series.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

If you follow the rules and make more horsepower that means your cheating? Dont think so, that means you know what your doing.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I'm not going to say that Toyota was cheating. They were given a huge upper hand by Nascar by allowing them to use modern tech while forcing Chevy and Ford to use the old tech they already had. However, it is infutible that Kyle Busch and his team were cheating. They were caught and was pathetic with trying to cover it up. They knew those cars exceeded the reduction in hp that Nascar mandated. A very good driver he is, but a Busch league(pun intended) action he and his team committed.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

I wouldn't do this either. By the way, this was at a car show and he had it in the "stock" class. He tried telling me it came from the factory like this. I asked him if he thought I was stupid or something. He says why? I'm like, "for one thing, the Dale Jr. edition is a Monte carlo SS, It only has the black "E" shaped decal on the side, and it doesn't have the owners name of the car above the door. 1/2 hour later, I walked by and noticed that he changed classes and went into modified class.

http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/...1&d=1219455042

http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/...1&d=1219455042

Re: NASCAR thread
 

All this bickering is about Toyota but I would bet that there is a lot of cheating going on with all the makes. The thing is, they just never got caught yet.

Re: NASCAR thread
 

Toyota wasn't cheating by making big HP numbers, they were just making more power than NASCAR thought prudent for a race where cars are supposed to have parity. Toyota chose to try to fake their test numbers by modifying the pedals with magnets so that they would get told by NASCAR what changes to make, but still secretly make more power than they were suposed to. That's the error in their ways, and that's when they cheated. They still should have gotten slapped down harder for that.

:borg:

Re: NASCAR thread
 

And that my friend has by far been the best summary of why it was cheating. :worship:


This recent episode by the "esteemed" Joe Gibbs and his racing team was one of the worst episodes of cheating in recent years in my opinion. Along with Mikey Waltrip and his Toyota team last year.