2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club

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2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/index.php)

- Engine & Drivetrain (Including trans & rear axles) (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64)

- - Head differences (http://www.mach1registry.org/forums/showthread.php?t=75881)

Shinigami

02-07-2008 09:42 AM

Re: Head differences

i was under the impression only the 05 aviator 4.6 had the better 7/8 cooling passages.

DanB	02-07-2008 11:04 AM

Re: Head differences

There was never a head tick issue. Originally it was though to be a lifter tick and they had came up with the head fix by replacing the head however the actual noise is a result of collapse piston skirts on the piston its self. Due to excessive piston to wall clearance. The cylinder is actual cone shaped and the largest being at the top when the piston comes to the top of the cylinder the piston starts to rock back and forth when the cylinder fires rattling all the way down the cylinder.

Also the aviator head is different from the 03-04 head just for the record. And the fact that they were the only coolant improved head was a miss conception as well. As was the rumor of no production heads came with 9 thread

Ben99GT

02-07-2008 04:05 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 947579)

Also the aviator head is different from the 03-04 head just for the record.

Aviator cylinder head part numbers cross reference with Cobra, Mach, and Marauder heads. They are all they same, rather they all benefitted from the same upgrades and refits at the same times.

3150Mach1

02-07-2008 05:28 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 947579)

So given all this then need some discussion concerning the cooling and the cooling mods that help flow coolant at #7 & #8. Is this still an issue? I did the LFP cooling mod so mute point for me.

DanB	02-07-2008 07:50 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03Mach150BP (Post 947767)

So given all this then need some discussion concerning the cooling and the cooling mods that help flow coolant at #7 & #8. Is this still an issue? I did the LFP cooling mod so mute point for me.

Well I have a 2004 and have not and will not ever use a cooling head modification. I have not seen the need for that modification yet. However it cant hurt to be safe

Shaker1

02-13-2008 03:12 AM

Re: Head differences

OK, I'm probably beating a dead horse here, but I have heard repeatedly that the 7/8 cooling issue caused valve guide galling and subsequently a ticking valve sound.

So, this is not the case then?

That would mean if one doesn't already have "the tick", they will likely never experience it at all, since piston slap tends to be a tolerance issue from day 1?

DanB	02-13-2008 10:59 AM

Re: Head differences

if a skirt collapse you will hear it as a tick

311-420

02-13-2008 08:12 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 947579)

soo..people took their cars to ford with a "ticking" sound and ford replaced everyones heads. if it was a piston, it would still tick afterwards. seems like a lot of people would have said something about this by now.

DanB	02-13-2008 10:50 PM

Re: Head differences

uhm I worked for for as a master tech for over 9 years and yes that is what WE did because that is what ford wanted to do!!!!!! you would be suprized how much money they saved because a lot of the car fell out of warranty or blew up

Shaker1

02-14-2008 01:47 AM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 947579)

There was never a head tick issue ... Due to excessive piston to wall clearance. The cylinder is actual cone shaped and the largest being at the top when the piston comes to the top of the cylinder the piston starts to rock back and forth when the cylinder fires rattling all the way down the cylinder...

Thanks for the info. Still not fully comprehending though.

Haven't the vast majority of these cases been isolated to the rear driver's side area (7&8)? Wouldn't that still suggest a (cooling?) problem in this area?

Also, it is my understanding that cylinders are honed straight, but that pistons are somewhat cone shaped (larger at the top) to accommodate heat expansion. Is this not the case?

Has this been affecting all pistons/cylinders?

Shinigami

02-14-2008 09:15 AM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 950808)

really? cuz there are a few hundred Cobra owners on SVTp that had their head replaced and have had no problems since.....

blown03Mach1

02-14-2008 09:32 AM

Re: Head differences

I don't understand how a head replacement (which cures the tick) stops a piston rattle problem. It seems to me if it were the pistons, then there would still be a tick even after the heads were replaced.

Mach 1 Mark

02-20-2008 01:42 AM

Re: Head differences

I have March 03 built car. So I'm assumming I have the original 4 thread spark plug hole heads. I don't see any blue paint either head. Is the blue stripe obvious or is it hidden under the valve covers? Just one more thing to worry about as I prepare to put the car on the open track.

BluBlurr32V

02-20-2008 02:23 AM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mach 1 Mark (Post 953752)

You can't see it from above the engine bay. You have to jack up the car and look from underneath. Its right above the exhaust manifold.
http://i133.photobucket.com/albums/q...1/fa5fc9c9.jpg

I borrowed this image from EPIKMACH, sorry I just needed a quick pic. Credit for the pic goes to him!

Mach 1 Mark

02-21-2008 02:39 AM

Re: Head differences

Blue Blurr32V thanks for the info. The next time I crawl under my car I'll take a look.

Mark

DanB	02-21-2008 02:56 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by blown03Mach1 (Post 950923)

Yea ok I guess adding more cylinder pressure would not stabilize the piston either …. What ever

blown03Mach1

02-21-2008 03:07 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 954496)

Yea ok I guess adding more cylinder pressure would not stabilize the piston either …. What ever

I do not claim to be correct and I am sure most people are not as knowledgeable as you appear to be on this subject, so with out adding more negative coments to your post, can you please dumb this down for me and explain this a little further? You mention that that Ford increased cylinder pressure to stop the piston clatter, how? Did Ford change the chamber size? I am not trying to be a smart ***, I just would like to know how things work.

JeromeMach1

02-21-2008 03:29 PM

Re: Head differences

I was able to stop the ticking by simply replacing the stock guides with bronze ones.

Jerome

DanB	02-21-2008 03:58 PM

Re: Head differences

Look not trying to sound like an Richard but here are the facts!!!!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeromeMach1 (Post 954510)

I was able to stop the ticking by simply replacing the stock guides with bronze ones.

Jerome

This is wrong!!!! Just to state the obvious here when you removed your heads and had bronze guides installed the machine shop also did a valve job to insure that the valve sealed after the new guides, when they tore in to the heads the also milled the bottom ( also known as the deck surface) in order to make it smooth enough for a MLS gasket to reseal when you mill a head you are making more cylinder pressured because the combustion part of the head is closer to the piston thus means less square area in turn adds more pressure to the piston thus stabilizing the piston to one side or the other (it Dampens to noise). The noise is actually still there it is just that you cant hear it due to added pressure. On a cobra it gets real bad because of the cylinder pressure they have due to the supercharger that is why it is more prone when idle and not under high boost. there is already enormous pressure on top of the piston so the clearance on a forced induction would have to be enormous for you to hear when the car is pullied and under pressure. That is why you hear it loudly when at idle due to less pressure

JeromeMach1

02-21-2008 04:08 PM

Re: Head differences

What you are saying makes sense. However, when the guides were changed, a valve job was done, the deck was milled, and the chambers were tampered with. The static presure remained roughly the same at about 190psi.

It would be interesting to do an experiment by simply changing the guides and seeing what that does.

Jerome

tmhutch

02-22-2008 04:01 AM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by DanB (Post 954529)

Look not trying to sound like an Richard but here are the facts!!!!!!

This is wrong!!!! Just to state the obvious here when you removed your heads and had bronze guides installed the machine shop also did a valve job to insure that the valve sealed after the new guides, when they tore in to the heads the also milled the bottom ( also known as the deck surface) in order to make it smooth enough for a MLS gasket to reseal when you mill a head you are making more cylinder pressured because the combustion part of the head is closer to the piston thus means less square area in turn adds more pressure to the piston thus stabilizing the piston to one side or the other (it Dampens to noise). The noise is actually still there it is just that you cant hear it due to added pressure. On a cobra it gets real bad because of the cylinder pressure they have due to the supercharger that is why it is more prone when idle and not under high boost. there is already enormous pressure on top of the piston so the clearance on a forced induction would have to be enormous for you to hear when the car is pullied and under pressure. That is why you hear it loudly when at idle due to less pressure

:crazy:

3150Mach1

02-23-2008 12:16 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by BluBlurr32V (Post 953762)

So I just went downstairs and double checked and my 03 Mach heads have this same blue paint. So this means its a ford fixed head (different valve guides) and still 4 thread spark plug holes right.

Cooldbz12

02-23-2008 05:22 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by 03Mach150BP (Post 955352)

So I just went downstairs and double checked and my 03 Mach heads have this same blue paint. So this means its a ford fixed head (different valve guides) and still 4 thread spark plug holes right.

Wondering this 2, my mach has a built date of 11/02.. but has the blue paint does this mean ford fixed the ticking noise on it and do i have the 4 thread or 9 thread spark plug holes?

3150Mach1

02-23-2008 06:13 PM

Re: Head differences

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cooldbz12 (Post 955440)

Wondering this 2, my mach has a built date of 11/02.. but has the blue paint does this mean ford fixed the ticking noise on it and do i have the 4 thread or 9 thread spark plug holes?

According to Dan it means the heads have replacement guides and are 4 thread.

fordboy

02-23-2008 09:59 PM

Re: Head differences

mine has april 03 build date,and blue on driverside head only.i have 30,000 klms on it and have no tick or cooling problems so am i just lucky/ or is problem yet to come

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