JMS Chip arrived

[The Mach Says]

You definitely have to keep us updated on this..........BTW, is yours a 5-speed or auto....................From the proposed Redline on one of your maps I'm assuming 5-speed, but your sig doesn't say..

jc

[Zate]

Hi All,

My JMS Chip arrived this morning.. hehe..

has 4 maps as follows

map 1 - test map/NOS = 1200 RPM idle (so you know the chip os being read)

map 2 - #1 map - 3.55 Gears (4:30s soon) - 7500 RPM limit (anyone else think this is a little high?..i dont intend taking it this far.. ever) - mill elims for mac prochamber - 2% leaner at WOT (stock AFR was 11.5:1 - need to dyno to find out what this is) - 2.5 Deg Timing advance - 185F for fans to come on - i think also Trac Control OFF by default. and all for 93 fuel.

map 3 - #2 Map - same as above except 3% fuel lean and 4 deg timing

map 4 - #3 map - 4% and 6 Timing ( i think..i will verify this with the documentation later) - there is a note to watch for detonation with this map -

planning on putting it on the dyno before i install the chip . in a weke or so.. test it stock.. fit prochamber and chip.. test each of the 3 maps to determine A if they detonate and B what the power levels are..

should be fun :)

[Zate]

yeah.. 5 speed.. although i am thinking 7500 is a tad high.. anyne else think so ?.. i tend to shift at 6500-7000 anyhow..

howd your post get above mine ?. LOL

[Ralph Greene]

I'm sure in maps 2 & 3, you'll make some extra power, maybe 4 also with good gas. But I sure hate to lose my warranty with a chip. Good luck.

[Tomcat427]

I noticed the 1st reply showing before the original post as well.

I shift around 6200 rpms right now. That will change depending on how my car reacts to the mod's that are going on right now. I am hoping my powerband continues further into the rpm range.

I am not planning on adding a chip until I add a power adder.

[ach1]

Your willing to loose your warranty for <.25 AFR (leaner at that), and 2.5 degrees of spark? I don't want to start this debate again, but that is such a nonsense modification I can't help but reply. Please let me know your results before and after the chip install. They might as well of modified the idle RPM up 3RPM for a quicker launch... In a engine calibration sense, that modification is noise.

If you could see a plot of torque vs spark, it will really show how little of an effect 2.5 degrees has on torque. Do an A-B-A chassis dyno comparison between these calibration and I highly doubt you will see a noticable or even measureable difference.




Originally posted by Zate
Hi All,

My JMS Chip arrived this morning.. hehe..

has 4 maps as follows

map 1 - test map/NOS = 1200 RPM idle (so you know the chip os being read)

map 2 - #1 map - 3.55 Gears (4:30s soon) - 7500 RPM limit (anyone else think this is a little high?..i dont intend taking it this far.. ever) - mill elims for mac prochamber - 2% leaner at WOT (stock AFR was 11.5:1 - need to dyno to find out what this is) - 2.5 Deg Timing advance - 185F for fans to come on - i think also Trac Control OFF by default. and all for 93 fuel.

map 3 - #2 Map - same as above except 3% fuel lean and 4 deg timing

map 4 - #3 map - 4% and 6 Timing ( i think..i will verify this with the documentation later) - there is a note to watch for detonation with this map -

planning on putting it on the dyno before i install the chip . in a weke or so.. test it stock.. fit prochamber and chip.. test each of the 3 maps to determine A if they detonate and B what the power levels are..

should be fun :)

[Zate]

not overly worried about that.. alot of conjecture about warranties but it all comes down to common sense.. and the dealer.. i have good faith in both.. .. many dealers are actually fitting chips and warrantying them.. i am not saying either that this will NOT void my warranty.. just that i have it covered.. thanks for the concern ;)

as for therest of what you said.. we'll see.. thats not as i understand the situation having seen mustangs with these same chips perform.. i am expecting perhaps 20-25 rwhp or more from the 3% map. I am doing a baseline.. fitting mac prochamber and chip and then dyno'ing each map..i want to be sure of the AFR in each map to know when/if i can run each.. ie map 4 might only be availale with some better gas ona cool night at the strip.. we'll see :)

[Blown86GT]

Originally posted by ach1
Your willing to loose your warranty for <.25 AFR (leaner at that), and 2.5 degrees of spark? I don't want to start this debate again, but that is such a nonsense modification I can't help but reply.

It is his car....

I am interested to see how much power Ford egineers left on the table. If it is in the area of 20-25 rwhp, especially on a NA motor, this is quite a gain.

Paul

[ach1]

True, it is his car, but I want to make sure people are at least a little bit educated about powertrain calibration before they do something like this. A 25 HP gain will not come from .25AFR and 2.5 degrees of spark. This would be at most a 2Ft Lbs of torque gain. The real mod here is the exhaust, and that could have the potential for some more horsepower, but there is no "free" horsepower that was left on the table. These engines are much more responsive to breathing better and a nice cold inlet air. Buy a bag of ice to sit on the intake and you will get much better results.



Originally posted by Blown86GT
It is his car....

I am interested to see how much power Ford egineers left on the table. If it is in the area of 20-25 rwhp, especially on a NA motor, this is quite a gain.

Paul

[Zate]

ok.. hold up a second.. educate me ?

i am not counting on the chip to provide me 20-25 HP..i am counting on a combination of the chip and exhaust..i'm not looking for magic horsepower..i'm looking at taking a car that is running very rich and leaning it out a little to gain some more power..

the jump in AFR and the advanced timing, plus the other adjustments made by the chip will result in a credible increase.. how do i know this ?.. because JMS has tuned countless other cars, including other STOCK 01/99 Cobras and gotten those gains with just the chip.

There is quit a bit of untuned ppower left on the table @ wot to compensate for low grade gas and temperature differentials.. the chip is just taking things alittle closer to the edge.. which i might add is still plenty far enough away to be safe.. its taking advantage of the exhausts ability to flow a touch better..

lets try not to be so know-it-all and a little less condecending.. a pointless mod is something like a Turbo Timer.. a chip on a otherwise stock veryrich N/A car is far from pointless.

[ach1]

I just want to help people that are potentially getting ripped off. I consider myself credible on powertrain calibration because it is my job. Will this chip hurt your car, probably not, will it help- no way. What parameters they modified I would really like to know. Final spark timing comes from several different factors and modifying the wrong thing can be really bad. Same goes for AFR @ WOT. What is more interesting, I would like to know how their dyno runs are performed.

But your real gain here is going to be coming from the exhaust mod, not 2.5 degrees of spark and .25AFR. This change would be along the same magnitudes of changing air pressure <1/4psi in your tires. I've seen people selling simple $.25 resistors on e-bay with the same claims of horsepower for $25.00. This chip sounds to be along those same lines. I would ask for some data that shows any claims to performance increase, particularly on an engine dyno, not a chassis dyno. Look at spark timing, peak pressure location, throttle position, engine oil temp, engine coolant temp, air charge temp, AFR (perferably from a bench analyzer), EGR rates, exhaust pressure and temperatures, RPM and torque and whether the test was run transient or steady state. If they can't provide this information, they probably didn't run any real test.

Best of Luck!
James

[Ralph Greene]

Ach1...I believe above you mention these engines respond well to more cold air. Do you mean just a K&N filter, a Cold air kit, a totally reworked box, etc, and does that improvement depend on exhaust mods also.

Do you have experience with how restrictive the stock exhaust is considering it's noise constraints. It it worth it to change out the mid pipe to one with hi flow cats? And keep the stock 2 1/4" pipes.

On a prevuous blown 4V I sold before buying this car, the car made 550 RWHP thru shory headers, Bassani X/cats, and 2 1/2" Bassani catback, so I don't mind running cats. Besides the smell and pollution, the Off Road X is just too loud for me.

[ach1]

A K&N filter will help, just make sure you don't over oil it, or it could mess up the hot wire in the mass air meter. Your car already has a nice shaker cold air kit, raising it up as stated in other post might help a little. As for reworked intake tubes, it all depends on the design. Exhaust is definetely a place that HP can be gained. That is why I am curious to hear the results from Zate and other people that have modified exhaust (I just don't want to see results comfounded with a chip that could do more harm than good). But my comment about cold air is simply putting a bag of ice on the intake before a race. Cold air is denser. If you can get more air into the engine, fuel will take care of itself, and you will get more power. But also remember, a 10-15HP gain is still less than 5% improvement for this engine which I haven't seen to many chassis dyno runs repeat within 5%. (I would guess a lot of the error is coming from different engine and intake temperatures.)



Originally posted by Ralph Greene
Ach1...I believe above you mention these engines respond well to more cold air. Do you mean just a K&N filter, a Cold air kit, a totally reworked box, etc, and does that improvement depend on exhaust mods also.

Do you have experience with how restrictive the stock exhaust is considering it's noise constraints. It it worth it to change out the mid pipe to one with hi flow cats? And keep the stock 2 1/4" pipes.

On a prevuous blown 4V I sold before buying this car, the car made 550 RWHP thru shory headers, Bassani X/cats, and 2 1/2" Bassani catback, so I don't mind running cats. Besides the smell and pollution, the Off Road X is just too loud for me.

[fordfreak]

ach1, I need a really good "Driveability" tech, want to leave the snow and move to sunny central Florida?

[ach1]

Actually I was just in Orlando Florida last weekend for the SAE Mini Baja race on the Univ of Central Florida campus. I don't think I could live there all year. Too hot! And I lost count of how many aligators I saw in the ditch on the way to Kennedy Space Center. Is aligator road kill common down there? In Michigan we have the deer, but they don't want to chew your head off.

[Ralph Greene]

Originally posted by ach1
Actually I was just in Orlando Florida last weekend for the SAE Mini Baja race on the Univ of Central Florida campus. I don't think I could live there all year. Too hot! And I lost count of how many aligators I saw in the ditch on the way to Kennedy Space Center. Is aligator road kill common down there? In Michigan we have the deer, but they don't want to chew your head off.

Don't think I have ever seen an aligator on the Hwy around here (orlando area), and I live less than 50 miles from the Cape. it's true, out in the booney's, aligators still live in the wild, but they are not a problem (unless you have a small dog running loose near one).

We do have a hot few months in the summer, but it is easier to cope with our summers than the cold winters up north. Everything is air conditioned, and most have pools available, and most do hot outside work in early AM. Central Florida summers are not a major problem. Howerer, I do admit a few of us go find cooler climates in August for a while.

Should you get an attractive career offer to this area, don't let the climate be the fator keeping you from accepting. I am retired, and I guess I could live any where I wish, and my wife and I mostly stay here.