Mach Do They Have Hemi Heads

[.madmax]

I WAS WONDERING IF THESE OVERHEAD CAM ENGINES HAVE HEMI HEADS SINCE THE SPARK PLUGS ARE IN THE HEAD ARE THEY IN THE CENTER OR ARE THEY SEMI/HEMI HEADS ??????????

[Chaucer]

they arent even close to being hemi heads. they are called hemi because the top of the chamber is hemispherical.

[Ralph Greene]

What we have is far superior to the "new" Hemi heads. DCX is milking that old term for all it's worth.

[Mach1Obcess]

Originally posted by Ralph Greene
What we have is far superior to the "new" Hemi heads. DCX is milking that old term for all it's worth. :agree:

[Tony Alonso]

This is a good techincal write-up (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/) on the engineering behind the current Hemi engine from DC.

[Ralph Greene]

Originally posted by Tony Alonso
This is a good techincal write-up (http://www.popularhotrodding.com/tech/0403phr_hemi/) on the engineering behind the current Hemi engine from DC.

Reads like a Mopar ad to me. It does look like a good engine compared to other OHV truck engines. But it was not compared to a modern 4V DOHC engine. Thanks for the link.

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by Ralph Greene
What we have is far superior to the "new" Hemi heads. DCX is milking that old term for all it's worth.


You need to put the pipe down dude......;) ;)

There is nothing "superior" in the 4.6 compared to the Hemi heads or the rest of the engine for that matter.....It makes 340 plus hp on Regular gas....and that is with an ECM that chokes the engine......IF someone ever figures out the code (no one really has yet) there is 400 hp in there bone stock. Remember this is an engine that is one year old......no piston slap, no mass failures, no overheating, no engine failures to speak of yet....The aftermarket will kick in and this will be an engine to be reckoned with in the next year or so.

very very good engine that is already rated on the top five engines of all time.

[Ralph Greene]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
You need to put the pipe down dude......;) ;)

There is nothing "superior" in the 4.6 compared to the Hemi heads or the rest of the engine for that matter.....It makes 340 plus hp on Regular gas....and that is with an ECM that chokes the engine......IF someone ever figures out the code (no one really has yet) there is 400 hp in there bone stock. Remember this is an engine that is one year old......no piston slap, no mass failures, no overheating, no engine failures to speak of yet....The aftermarket will kick in and this will be an engine to be reckoned with in the next year or so.

very very good engine that is already rated on the top five engines of all time.

He asked about heads...not complete engine. He asked how it compares with "our" 4V heads. Sure...the new Hemi compares well against 4.6 2V and 5.4 2V engines. If our 4V engines were comparable displacement ro current Hemi and to newer 6.1 L coming Hemi, with 4V head designed for that displacement, I imagine our DOHC 4V design would easily exceed hemi power....size for size.

BTW....Not knocking the hemi....It appears to me to be the best 2V OHV engine yet. And well suited for what they are putting it in. Maybe Daimler will make a lightweight version of it. It should make 400 HP no problem. But 5 L 4V DOHC engines make that now easily also.

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by Ralph Greene
He asked about heads...not complete engine. He asked how it compares with "our" 4V heads. Sure...the new Hemi compares well against 4.6 2V and 5.4 2V engines. If our 4V engines were comparable displacement ro current Hemi and to newer 6.1 L coming Hemi, with 4V head designed for that displacement, I imagine our DOHC 4V design would easily exceed hemi power....size for size.

BTW....Not knocking the hemi....It appears to me to be the best 2V OHV engine yet. And well suited for what they are putting it in. Maybe Daimler will make a lightweight version of it. It should make 400 HP no problem. But 5 L 4V DOHC engines make that now easily also.

I believe the HEMI two valve outflows our teeny weeny 4 valves......There just isn't a lot of room to make the valves any size and they have to be crammed in there because of the 4 valve config and the small combustion chamber.......But hey...even though all my current vehicles are OHC I prefer the good ole pushrods for down low punch......which we are short on.

have a nice day....

[bubba"T"]

so do we have hemi. or not & what do you call what we got :confused:

[bubba"T"]

so do we have hemi. or not & what do you call what we got :confused:

[atmachspeed]

the 2-v ohv set up is simpler and has less moving parts than our 4v quad cam set up. (though cylinder shut-down is quite a sophisticated feature on the 300C)
AND the new hemi is quite a bit larger than our 4.6s and puts down significantly more torque at lower rpms than any of ford's modulars could (save the blown versions, espcially the GT)
lets face it, there is no replacement for displacement. a bigger motor almost always has more power potential.
i don't think Ford will ever go back to an ohv set up, but I am excited to see what the evolution of the modular has in store, especially after the introduction of the 5.0 cammer.

sorry for going off-topic. if i am not mistaken, i beleive our engines have a semi-hemi like stated above. i remember reading that the though cumbustion chamber is hemispherical, the valve placement (possibly since it is a 4v) is not in line with a true hemi design.

[Sam04]

Originally posted by Ralph Greene
What we have is far superior to the "new" Hemi heads. DCX is milking that old term for all it's worth.

:agree:

Absolutely, the benefit of a hemi head is that you can use larger valves, but two large valves can never flow as well as four in the same area...:CHEERS:

[Sam04]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
I believe the HEMI two valve outflows our teeny weeny 4 valves......There just isn't a lot of room to make the valves any size and they have to be crammed in there because of the 4 valve config and the small combustion chamber.......But hey...even though all my current vehicles are OHC I prefer the good ole pushrods for down low punch......which we are short on.

have a nice day....

No way...:notsure:

2V Hemi heads increase the intake potential approximately 44% over standard 2V heads, where the 4V design we have can double the intake potential which means our heads out flow hemi heads by as much as hemi heads outflow standard 2V heads...:THUMBSUP:

[BL4C|< 04 M4Ch1]

Originally posted by bubba"T"
so do we have hemi. or not & what do you call what we got :confused:

we have what is commonly referred to as "wedge" heads.

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by Sam04
No way...:notsure:

2V Hemi heads increase the intake potential approximately 44% over standard 2V heads, where the 4V design we have can double the intake potential which means our heads out flow hemi heads by as much as hemi heads outflow standard 2V heads...:THUMBSUP:



Wrong.......efficiency is lost because of the space required to have the four valves crammed in there the benifit isn't proportional. I would guess the total valve area of the two valve HEMI is as great as the area of our 4 valve....

There is NO engine that makes more power than the HEMI....Even the new Hemi crate motors make 400 hp na. Not bad for a one year old engine.

[Sam04]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
Wrong.......efficiency is lost because of the space required to have the four valves crammed in there the benifit isn't proportional. I would guess the total valve area of the two valve HEMI is as great as the area of our 4 valve....

There is NO engine that makes more power than the HEMI....Even the new Hemi crate motors make 400 hp na. Not bad for a one year old engine.

It can't be, because the valve diameter can only increase 12-15% over a normal head and because it isn't possible to get 2 circular valves to cover the same surface area possible with 4. Also, it isn't a true hemi because the piston dome would have to be so large that you would lose efficiency and power transfer. The hemi is all '60s hype...

The 426 hemi, which was the most powerful production hemi ever, produced less power than the new Cobra motor even though the Cobra has 145 CI smaller displacement. The 331 CI hemi never produced the power level of our Mach 1 motors either. The current productin hemi is 5.7L that produces 340HP which is barely more than our measly 4.6L non-hemi or Chevy's non-hemi LS1 (also 5.7L). The most powerful production motor produced by Chrysler Corp. is the 505 CI Viper V10 producing 500HP & 525lb/ft TQ and it isn't a hemi either.

Get your facts straight if you want to spread the hype...:SMASH:

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by Sam04
It can't be, because the valve diameter can only increase 12-15% over a normal head and because it isn't possible to get 2 circular valves to cover the same surface area possible with 4. Also, it isn't a true hemi because the piston dome would have to be so large that you would lose efficiency and power transfer. The hemi is all '60s hype...

The 426 hemi, which was the most powerful production hemi ever, produced less power than the new Cobra motor even though the Cobra has 145 CI smaller displacement. The 331 CI hemi never produced the power level of our Mach 1 motors either. The current productin hemi is 5.7L that produces 340HP which is barely more than our measly 4.6L non-hemi or Chevy's non-hemi LS1 (also 5.7L). The most powerful production motor produced by Chrysler Corp. is the 505 CI Viper V10 producing 500HP & 525lb/ft TQ and it isn't a hemi either.

Get your facts straight if you want to spread the hype...:SMASH:

oh boy.......:??: You have trouble comprehending......I know how much the hemi produces:MADNOEL: I mentioned the crate motor which isn't intentionally choked...I'll say it again...the HEMI out flows the 4.6 4 valve....U can look it up on the internet....

Oh and for the record.....NOTHING and I mean NOTHING out produces the HEMI on the drag strip......and it isn't a true HEMI either....hype lol....:SMASH: and isn't it special you use the CI to HP argument.... try HP that can't be measured on a dyno.....7500 plus on less than 600 CI.....oh...but they should be using our 4 valve head on the top fuels they flow so good........:rolleyes:

[SVTCobra]

I am going to answer you question with one word they add a side note...


"NO"

The new "Hemi's" that Ddge is selling don't even have true Hemi heads.. That is a big gripe of the true Dodge people right now. Go look though the dodge sites and do a search.. It is really funny to see them complain.

My best friend is a Dodge nut and bitches ever time I see him.. It is funny..

Eric

[Sam04]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
Oh and for the record.....NOTHING and I mean NOTHING out produces the HEMI on the drag strip......and it isn't a true HEMI either....hype lol....:SMASH: and isn't it special you use the CI to HP argument.... try HP that can't be measured on a dyno.....7500 plus on less than 600 CI.....oh...but they should be using our 4 valve head on the top fuels they flow so good........:rolleyes:

What planet are you from anyway? Do you think all top fuel cars are Mopars. Hemi heads are good, but there is no magic there and there are many examples of non-hemi headed engines out performing hemis of equal or greater displacement. If your premise were true, that would be impossible. Oh, and good luck trying to drive a top fuel hemi on the street...
:blah:

Even in the hemi's glory days, it had more potent competitors like the LS6 Chevelle SS and the 440 Six pack Cuda and both could outrun the hemi on the drag strip. Now hemi Daytonas and Superbirds are a different story, they dominated NASCAR so badly that they were banned after the first season. Enjoy your hemi...:THUMBSUP:

[TerryJ]

OMFG......PHYSICS majors!.we all know.hemi's were innovative because they increased airflow through the combustion chambers.they scavenged air..making the flow better..hence horsepower...but,....they were pushing all that top end weight....
but still cool, pretty good advancement..then came fuel injection.:LAUGH: wow.whole new ball game....then the rocket scientists said..."hey.reduce the valvetrain weight.more free ponies"....then the mod guy said.......hey.4 valves......woohoo.......extra free horses as long as it can breathe..maybe we should use the hemispherical head design to make it flow even quicker....but it has to be cammed to run at high RPM'S...but no low end torque..."MOD ENGINES!"

[lamach1]

Hawkgfr, I would not know where to start in trying to correct all your misconceptions, but just look at the facts. stock 4.6=330 HP.....Stock 5.7 hemi=340 HP. 5.0 crate engine=425 HP.......5.7 crate engine=400 HP. Now why do you suppose the 4v motors make the same and more HP with less cubic inches? In two words.."superior heads".
Now consider that the 5.7 engine with 10 more HP gets about 16 miles per gallon and the 4.6 gets 27 mpg. I could go on and on ,but I already know I'm wasting my time.

[mopacmach]

Hey, guys! You are all missing the point, when you try to compare the design of the 64-71 426 Hemi with our 4.6 DOHC engines. They both are incredible engines, but you have to compare them as complete packages. Let me explain. I have had many performance cars over the years. At one time I had as many as 6 426 hemi's. The hemi design was the most powerful production 2 valve cylinder head ever produced. But do not try to think of how it would work on a 4.6 sized engine. It was designed to work with a 4.25 inch bore and even if you could scale it down somehow to work on our small bore 4.6 engines it would be a dog compared to our 4v heads. On the other hand, it would probably be impossible to engineer a true hemi head with 4 valves per cylinder. How could you possibly position the valves and keep the hemispherical combustion chamber?, nevermind how it would flow. The only way to address this is for someone (FORD?) to build a 426ci engine with larger, re-engineered, 4v cylinder heads. Even Ford realizes this, as evidenced by the 5.4 DOHC engine in the GT40.

[Sam04]

Originally posted by mopacmach
Hey, guys! You are all missing the point, when you try to compare the design of the 64-71 426 Hemi with our 4.6 DOHC engines. They both are incredible engines, but you have to compare them as complete packages. Let me explain. I have had many performance cars over the years. At one time I had as many as 6 426 hemi's. The hemi design was the most powerful production 2 valve cylinder head ever produced. But do not try to think of how it would work on a 4.6 sized engine. It was designed to work with a 4.25 inch bore and even if you could scale it down somehow to work on our small bore 4.6 engines it would be a dog compared to our 4v heads. On the other hand, it would probably be impossible to engineer a true hemi head with 4 valves per cylinder. How could you possibly position the valves and keep the hemispherical combustion chamber?, nevermind how it would flow. The only way to address this is for someone (FORD?) to build a 426ci engine with larger, re-engineered, 4v cylinder heads. Even Ford realizes this, as evidenced by the 5.4 DOHC engine in the GT40.

:agree: These are exactly the points I was trying to make...:THUMBSUP:

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by lamach1
Hawkgfr, I would not know where to start in trying to correct all your misconceptions, but just look at the facts. stock 4.6=330 HP.....Stock 5.7 hemi=340 HP. 5.0 crate engine=425 HP.......5.7 crate engine=400 HP. Now why do you suppose the 4v motors make the same and more HP with less cubic inches? In two words.."superior heads".
Now consider that the 5.7 engine with 10 more HP gets about 16 miles per gallon and the 4.6 gets 27 mpg. I could go on and on ,but I already know I'm wasting my time.

You like others need to learn how to comphrehend as well as you read.......and yea you are wasting MY time as well as yours escpecially in light of your logic listed here lol......but just a couple counterpoints....

The STOCK 5.7 gets 18mpg in a 4650 pund truck with a pitiful auto. The 5.7 gets 24 mpg in a 4000 pound 300c with a pitiful auto. Also as stated earlier, the HP per cubes doesn't apply to this argument. I mean the HEMI is ONE year old. The 4.6 is probably your age:LAUGH: The 4.6 4 valve is a great motor but give the new HEMI 2 more years instead of 9 or 10 the 4.6 has had and the picture will be more clear to the non believers.

The 5.7 with TWO vlaves flows 270 cfm @.600 lift on the intake. what does the 4.6 4 valve flow at that lift? The Hemi has a ECM code that hasn't been popped yet. The 4.6 has an aggressive tune that requires premium. The Hemi runs fine on regular and yes I could go on and on......

My point is the HEMI is an very very nice engine and the potential hasn't been even scratched yet. There is 400 hp easily in the engine with NO mods once the issues with the computer are met. That does not incude the normal mods everyone does. I referenced the crate 5.7 engine simply because it doesn't have these issues.

IF the Hemi was in a 3400 pound car, and hopefully it will some day, then we would see it's true potential. 4 valve heads are nice and do have it's place as they do make HP up high...that doesn't mean it's better and for the STREET though. It for sure doesn't mean the 4.6 heads are better than the Hemi.

Anyhow it's way too early to call it HYPE...The HEMI and the LS6 are the two best things going for us in the future....

Oh and the HEMI hasn't been beat in 40 years in top fuel or funny cars....and would still be ruling NASCAR with they would let them run it. But it's all hype...:rolleyes:

[281CJ Mach1]

Originally posted by mopacmach
On the other hand, it would probably be impossible to engineer a true hemi head with 4 valves per cylinder. How could you possibly position the valves and keep the hemispherical combustion chamber?, nevermind how it would flow. The only way to address this is for someone (FORD?) to build a 426ci engine with larger, re-engineered, 4v cylinder heads. Even Ford realizes this, as evidenced by the 5.4 DOHC engine in the GT40.

Chrysler built 2 DOHC 4 valve 426 Hemi's in either 64 or 66(can't remember which year)... it's nicknamed 'The Doomsday Device'. Only 1 of the motors is still in known existence. The motors made over 600hp NA and were built for Nascar competition against Ford's SOHC 427, but they were outlawed before ever used. I'd show you the article, but all my Mopar mags are boxed up and in Texas. It was in Mopar Action in the mid-late 90s. I was and still am a Mopar junkie all my life. :MADNOEL:

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by 281CJ Mach1
Chrysler built 2 DOHC 4 valve 426 Hemi's in either 64 or 66(can't remember which year)... it's nicknamed 'The Doomsday Device'. Only 1 of the motors is still in known existence. The motors made over 600hp NA and were built for Nascar competition against Ford's SOHC 427, but they were outlawed before ever used. I'd show you the article, but all my Mopar mags are boxed up and in Texas. It was in Mopar Action in the mid-late 90s.


I seem to remember reading about that.....The 427 wasn't a slouch either but it didn't get much of a chance.

[stangdiablo]

Originally posted by Sam04
It can't be, because the valve diameter can only increase 12-15% over a normal head and because it isn't possible to get 2 circular valves to cover the same surface area possible with 4. Also, it isn't a true hemi because the piston dome would have to be so large that you would lose efficiency and power transfer. The hemi is all '60s hype...

The 426 hemi, which was the most powerful production hemi ever, produced less power than the new Cobra motor even though the Cobra has 145 CI smaller displacement. The 331 CI hemi never produced the power level of our Mach 1 motors either. The current productin hemi is 5.7L that produces 340HP which is barely more than our measly 4.6L non-hemi or Chevy's non-hemi LS1 (also 5.7L). The most powerful production motor produced by Chrysler Corp. is the 505 CI Viper V10 producing 500HP & 525lb/ft TQ and it isn't a hemi either.

Get your facts straight if you want to spread the hype...:SMASH:

WELL SAID :THUMBSUP: took the words from my mouth :worship:

[lamach1]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
You like others need to learn how to comphrehend as well as you read.......and yea you are wasting MY time as well as yours escpecially in light of your logic listed here lol......but just a couple counterpoints....

The STOCK 5.7 gets 18mpg in a 4650 pund truck with a pitiful auto. The 5.7 gets 24 mpg in a 4000 pound 300c with a pitiful auto. Also as stated earlier, the HP per cubes doesn't apply to this argument. I mean the HEMI is ONE year old. The 4.6 is probably your age:LAUGH: The 4.6 4 valve is a great motor but give the new HEMI 2 more years instead of 9 or 10 the 4.6 has had and the picture will be more clear to the non believers.

The 5.7 with TWO vlaves flows 270 cfm @.600 lift on the intake. what does the 4.6 4 valve flow at that lift? The Hemi has a ECM code that hasn't been popped yet. The 4.6 has an aggressive tune that requires premium. The Hemi runs fine on regular and yes I could go on and on......

My point is the HEMI is an very very nice engine and the potential hasn't been even scratched yet. There is 400 hp easily in the engine with NO mods once the issues with the computer are met. That does not incude the normal mods everyone does. I referenced the crate 5.7 engine simply because it doesn't have these issues.

IF the Hemi was in a 3400 pound car, and hopefully it will some day, then we would see it's true potential. 4 valve heads are nice and do have it's place as they do make HP up high...that doesn't mean it's better and for the STREET though. It for sure doesn't mean the 4.6 heads are better than the Hemi.

Anyhow it's way too early to call it HYPE...The HEMI and the LS6 are the two best things going for us in the future....

Oh and the HEMI hasn't been beat in 40 years in top fuel or funny cars....and would still be ruling NASCAR with they would let them run it. But it's all hype...:rolleyes:



The 4.6 flows around 266 at .500 lift so in stock form it is probably about the same as the hemi, although this does nothing to change my position that the DOHC 4v is a superior head design. As you know, either engine could have been made to have higher flow numbers in stock form, but each was designed to flow the appropriate amount for it's purpose. To much flow is not good in a daily driver.
Sure, you could throw a hemi into NASCAR and have the best thing going, because the nascar engines have so many restrictions. A nascar engine is the best engine that can be built under certain conditions i.e. v-8, single cam, and a specific intake size. It is not really representative of an all out race engine where you are free to use any engine design for all out power. For this, you would have to look more at indy cars which use the DOHC 4v engine designs.
You can say it's rice all you want, but the a good indicator of engine efficiency and design is horsepower per cubic inch and stock for stock, the 4.6 is the superior engine. The hemi is just a bigger engine. If you built a 700 cubic inch flat head engine with 400 horsepower would you call it a superior engine design or just a bigger engine?

[atmachspeed]

Originally posted by Hawkgfr
You like others need to learn how to comphrehend as well as you read.......and yea you are wasting MY time as well as yours escpecially in light of your logic listed here lol......but just a couple counterpoints....

The STOCK 5.7 gets 18mpg in a 4650 pund truck with a pitiful auto. The 5.7 gets 24 mpg in a 4000 pound 300c with a pitiful auto. Also as stated earlier, the HP per cubes doesn't apply to this argument. I mean the HEMI is ONE year old. The 4.6 is probably your age:LAUGH: The 4.6 4 valve is a great motor but give the new HEMI 2 more years instead of 9 or 10 the 4.6 has had and the picture will be more clear to the non believers.

The 5.7 with TWO vlaves flows 270 cfm @.600 lift on the intake. what does the 4.6 4 valve flow at that lift? The Hemi has a ECM code that hasn't been popped yet. The 4.6 has an aggressive tune that requires premium. The Hemi runs fine on regular and yes I could go on and on......

My point is the HEMI is an very very nice engine and the potential hasn't been even scratched yet. There is 400 hp easily in the engine with NO mods once the issues with the computer are met. That does not incude the normal mods everyone does. I referenced the crate 5.7 engine simply because it doesn't have these issues.

IF the Hemi was in a 3400 pound car, and hopefully it will some day, then we would see it's true potential. 4 valve heads are nice and do have it's place as they do make HP up high...that doesn't mean it's better and for the STREET though. It for sure doesn't mean the 4.6 heads are better than the Hemi.

Anyhow it's way too early to call it HYPE...The HEMI and the LS6 are the two best things going for us in the future....

Oh and the HEMI hasn't been beat in 40 years in top fuel or funny cars....and would still be ruling NASCAR with they would let them run it. But it's all hype...:rolleyes:
1. Just curious, but why did you buy a Mach 1 in first place? There will undoubtedly be a smaller Mopar with a new "hemi" in the future. Maybe you should have just saved your duckets.
2. The 300C acheives its 24 MPG with the cylinder shut down technology. In my opinion, it's DC's way of compensating for a not-so-fuel-efficient design. The LS6 acheives even better MPG without this feature and is essentially the same displacement.
3. Though the 4.6 has been in use since the early nineties, it can and has been argued by tuners that it's potential has not been reached.
3. You may like the deep down torque of an OHV, pushrod motor, but many prefer the higher revving smaller displacement dohc settups. In this regard, Ford cammer's have a slightly different target than the it's bigger bore counterparts at Dodge and Chevy.
For straight street stomping, a big motor is best, but for a well-rounded road car (which arguably, the Mach 1 isn't in stock form) a lighter, free-er revving design is in order. Since Ford is embracing European concepts for road car dynamics more than GM or DC (at least in its Chrysler/Dodge applications) is, the cammer definitely has a good future.

By the way, there is no arguing that the 5.0 crate engine kicks serious a$$.

[Mach1Power]

thats it, im sold. i am going to trade for a hemi truck. can i put a blower on without blowing up the rods and pistons?

just kidding.
i would rather push my mach, then drive something else.

:CHEERS:

[Hawkgfr]

Originally posted by atmachspeed
1. Just curious, but why did you buy a Mach 1 in first place? There will undoubtedly be a smaller Mopar with a new "hemi" in the future. Maybe you should have just saved your duckets.
2. The 300C acheives its 24 MPG with the cylinder shut down technology. In my opinion, it's DC's way of compensating for a not-so-fuel-efficient design. The LS6 acheives even better MPG without this feature and is essentially the same displacement.
3. Though the 4.6 has been in use since the early nineties, it can and has been argued by tuners that it's potential has not been reached.
3. You may like the deep down torque of an OHV, pushrod motor, but many prefer the higher revving smaller displacement dohc settups. In this regard, Ford cammer's have a slightly different target than the it's bigger bore counterparts at Dodge and Chevy.
For straight street stomping, a big motor is best, but for a well-rounded road car (which arguably, the Mach 1 isn't in stock form) a lighter, free-er revving design is in order. Since Ford is embracing European concepts for road car dynamics more than GM or DC (at least in its Chrysler/Dodge applications) is, the cammer definitely has a good future.

By the way, there is no arguing that the 5.0 crate engine kicks serious a$$.



1. cause I am not really "brand" loyal like some folks and the mach is a nice car and fairly rare. It isn't perfect and I am not a big 4 cammer fan because I do drive on the street and I think it's pointless to have to turn 6000 rpms to do the same thing at 5000 with a pushrod. If you knew how many cars I had you would understand lol....It's just a thing with me.:HOPPY: ( a lot of cars) I also happen to thing the Mach will be a good car to re-sell as well if I decide to part with it someday.

2. I think if the DC engine was in a 3400 pound car with a manual tranny you would see comparatable milage. My bigger LS1 in the my 01 TA averaged 1 mpg better than the 4.6 does in my Mach. The Hemi in my Ram would get 18 and it weighed a portly 46xx and doesn't appear to be very airo friendly. You are right about the 300, but remember it tops 4000 as well and has the auto.

3. I agree but Ford basciaclly said it's reached it's potentail NA and put a blower on it. In my opinion, the GM and DC engines are now ahead of the game in the engine department. DOHC technology came before pushrods and I don't consider a ten year old engine to be all that "modern". Not that it has to be to be good.

4. Yes I do like the off idle torque of a bigger engine but I like the way the Mach makes up for it with gearing and you may be right about different targets. Your thoughts on the street stomping and road cars is dead on as well. ( i guess it's which do we prefer) Usually I don't say a lot but it irritates me a little sometimes for someone (not you) to say this is better than that or whatever without a shroud of evidence or truth no matter what the brand.

You reply was very well thought out and I applaud you for it.

:CHEERS:

[Ralph Greene]

The reason I made my brief statement that our heads are superior is because I believe a 4V DOHC design is a superior HP making design....engine size to engine size. I was not comparing our DOHC 4V 4.6 to a (good) 2V 5.7 pushrod engine. I also don't think it matters a lot how the valves are actuated.

That said...IMHO the new "hemi" is an outstanding engine for what I understand is it's intended use. Powering somewhat heavy vehicles where a lot of tq is required. I never said otherwise.